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Old 10-14-2011, 08:10 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,298,689 times
Reputation: 2396

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I would also add that rather than you folks getting mad at me for my opinion on this situation, you should be aiming your rage at the current conservative-oriented state legislature for kowtowing to the latest group of hill-billies who want to pretend like they actually cared about "fiscal responsibility" in Georgia. Roslyn Holcomb did a great job explaining the fakery behind that one in another thread.

It's those yahoos who pushed the vote on this transportation bill to the primary election rather than the much friendlier general election where they knew the bill would face an even steeper uphill battle in getting passed by the public. Primary elections are a patisan voter's wetdream; even moreso for those of the Attila-the-Hun mindset.

And where was Gub'na Deal with his much-needed political muscle? More than likely hanging waaay in the back trying to stay out of the limelight.

Georgia's conservatives are very good at this sort of thing, bullying everyone into towing the company line. But if you want to blame the brotha from South Dekalb for Georgia's transit problems, no big deal.

It wouldn't be the first time a brotha was blamed for something in this country after all...

Last edited by AcidSnake; 10-14-2011 at 08:56 PM..
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Old 10-14-2011, 09:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,579 posts, read 10,734,216 times
Reputation: 6552
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I noticed you didn't even try to delineate the differences between North & South Dekalb). But for myself, I don't look at one aspect of Dekalb county's life from the ugly past, to the not-so-great present...I look at the WHOLE picture...and it's an ugly one..

Oh yea your right... My mentioning the northward growth of population, businesses, and wealth has nothing to do with any of that. It is in the very first sentence of my reply.



MARTA expanded with all the money they had available inside the counties paying for it. They expanded in all directions from downtown and they expanded along corridors that had heavier growth usually following existing rail right of ways.

So when I listen to your arguments... I'm not really sure what to say... On a regional level I don't know what can be done to rectify any of this. This tax isn't collecting enough money for the county's own wish list.

The only thing I can think is the Clifton corridor could be ignored to move funding south, but it is a major employment center in a very congested corridor.

If the money comes from elsewhere, then it just turns into a huge cash grab from Dekalb because by the numbers Dekalb is already getting more than its fair share.

In fact, even Atlanta is sort of pulling ahead in funding over that of the outer counties.
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Old 10-14-2011, 10:16 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
14,834 posts, read 7,386,464 times
Reputation: 8966
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I would also add that rather than you folks getting mad at me for my opinion on this situation, you should be aiming your rage at the current conservative-oriented state legislature for kowtowing to the latest group of hill-billies who want to pretend like they actually cared about "fiscal responsibility" in Georgia. Roslyn Holcomb did a great job explaining the fakery behind that one in another thread.

It's those yahoos who pushed the vote on this transportation bill to the primary election rather than the much friendlier general election where they knew the bill would face an even steeper uphill battle in getting passed by the public. Primary elections are a patisan voter's wetdream; even moreso for those of the Attila-the-Hun mindset.

And where was Gub'na Deal with his much-needed political muscle? More than likely hanging waaay in the back trying to stay out of the limelight.

Georgia's conservatives are very good at this sort of thing, bullying everyone into towing the company line. But if you want to blame the brotha from South Dekalb for Georgia's transit problems, no big deal.

It wouldn't be the first time a brotha was blamed for something in this country after all...
I don't see how this is really a liberal vs conservative thing.

In fact I would say adding a new tax to be used on infrastructure spending is a more liberal than conservative plan.
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:15 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,298,689 times
Reputation: 2396
South Dekalb has grown very heavily, especially east towards Lithonia. That's the whole reason why Stonecrest Mall along with the many other businesses in that area were built in the first place. It didn't even take a MARTA line to recognize that potential. All I want is for Georgia's leaders to recognize the potential in that area and give us that line that we deserve so that more business can be encouraged to come eastward.

The funny part is while so many other municipalities and their citizenry in Metro Atlanta go out of their way to crap on MARTA at every opportunity, we South Dekalb citizens have been practically begging for it. What a joke this state is.

Finally, I think you are wearing blinders, man. Which is why I bypassed that first remark. You ignore my concerns and I will ignore yours. Until you and others like yourself acknowledge the potential growth and power in east Dekalb...there is nothing more to discuss on this issue.

My vote is still no.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
Oh yea your right... My mentioning the northward growth of population, businesses, and wealth has nothing to do with any of that. It is in the very first sentence of my reply.



MARTA expanded with all the money they had available inside the counties paying for it. They expanded in all directions from downtown and they expanded along corridors that had heavier growth usually following existing rail right of ways.

So when I listen to your arguments... I'm not really sure what to say... On a regional level I don't know what can be done to rectify any of this. This tax isn't collecting enough money for the county's own wish list.

The only thing I can think is the Clifton corridor could be ignored to move funding south, but it is a major employment center in a very congested corridor.

If the money comes from elsewhere, then it just turns into a huge cash grab from Dekalb because by the numbers Dekalb is already getting more than its fair share.

In fact, even Atlanta is sort of pulling ahead in funding over that of the outer counties.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 10-15-2011 at 05:47 AM..
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Old 10-15-2011, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,298,689 times
Reputation: 2396
I don't think that you are understanding what I am saying.

I'm saying that than rather get angry at me for not supporting the transportation plan, y'all should be angry at the politicians who decided to push the referendum on transportation to the primary election next year where hyper-partisans like myself are sure to come out in droves and vote it down.

That's what I'm saying.

Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
I don't see how this is really a liberal vs conservative thing.

In fact I would say adding a new tax to be used on infrastructure spending is a more liberal than conservative plan.
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Old 10-15-2011, 09:50 AM
 
4,833 posts, read 6,075,374 times
Reputation: 4635
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I've perused a good bit of these public comments.

If these allegations are true, I'm very disappointed that former Governor Barnes may have been the driving force behind cutting South Dekalb County's balls off by killing the I-20 east MARTA rail project. And that was back in 1999, before the housing craze truly blasted off and right-of-way was less of a concern.

I guess whether it be Democrat or Republic, Georgia's political leadership truly has a tendency to disappoint people in the most brutal of ways. I guess hades will freeze over before South Dekalb ever truly receives any love.

If it ain't getting ripped off by the loss of the Perimeter CID, if it ain't having so many garbage dumps forced upon us, then it's being forced to eat a 1-cent sales tax for the past 40 years while consistently getting shafted by a lack of rail-lines and bus cuts. Southern politics truly suck total d---.

I am soooo ready to vote this bill down. Someone explain to me why I should think otherwise.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
South Dekalb has grown very heavily, especially east towards Lithonia. That's the whole reason why Stonecrest Mall along with the many other businesses in that area were built in the first place. It didn't even take a MARTA line to recognize that potential. All I want is for Georgia's leaders to recognize the potential in that area and give us that line that we deserve so that more business can be encouraged to come eastward.

The funny part is while so many other municipalities and their citizenry in Metro Atlanta go out of their way to crap on MARTA at every opportunity, we South Dekalb citizens have been practically begging for it. What a joke this state is.

Finally, I think you are wearing blinders, man. Which is why I bypassed that first remark. You ignore my concerns and I will ignore yours. Until you and others like yourself acknowledge the potential growth and power in east Dekalb...there is nothing more to discuss on this issue.

My vote is still no.
You know something is better than nothing, I don't perfectly agree with everything a part of the plan, but I realized it's more positives than flaws to me. I like the earlier plans but they generally scale down on rail alot, However because of that I not going vote no to something the region needs as a whole. Voting no doesn't change South Dekalb transit plans, but it will change metro Atlanta plans, a set back at large. If this fails I'm pessimistic for the region's future.

Last decade was a lost decade for Atlanta, This decade we really need to get the ball rolling this referendum can be the start. I heard before, this is the biggest investment since the creation of Hartsfield.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:25 AM
 
3,698 posts, read 5,963,695 times
Reputation: 2996
CSX has a rail line that goes straight from downtown Atlanta to Stonecrest Mall. Why aren't we at least considering using that as a commuter rail line? That would also benefit Gwinnett folks, with a park and ride station on US 78. I feel like the regional thinking here is sorely lacking. The vast majority of projects I have seen seem to benefit one county almost exclusively.

On a side note, how in the world do they plan to run a transit line down I-20? Does anyone have a typical section or concept that is remotely feasible? Don't show me GA 400--there's no median space for something like that on 20 AFAIK. Maybe OTP it would be somewhat feasible. Not ITP.
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Old 10-15-2011, 10:34 AM
 
32,008 posts, read 36,668,783 times
Reputation: 13274
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
If South Dekalb ever has a chance in heck of getting rail it will likely be through federal monies. Most of Georgia's politicans are late today and stupid forever in this area.

To heck with "State's Rights" in this situation. As a black resident who often seen from personal experience how local lawmakers act not much differently than your typical Somalian warlord ruling over a fiefdom, I would rather allow the federal government to step in and give South Dekalb an I-20 rail line.

The only way I think that like-minded South Dekalb residents like myself will vote for this bill is that a plan must be outlined for how we will get our transit line. No ifs, maybes, and possiblys. That's not good enough. Not anymore...
South DeKalb has always had tremendous clout when it come to transportation. I-20 East was one of the first legs of the interstate to open in Atlanta. South DeKalb got the first MARTA line, which has been extended twice. It got the Stone Mountain Freeway. It got I-675. It would have the eastern section of Langford Parkway except for the fact that it was blocked by neighborhood advocates. It has had major intersection improvements along I-285 and tons of arterial road improvements.

Emory McClinton has been a great advocate for South DeKalb, along with many other powerful leaders over the decades. South DeKalb has long been a powerhouse in state and regional politics.

Now, should South DeKalb get another rail line? There are certainly arguments in favor of that, but in today's world DeKalb has to get in there scrap for funding like the rest of the metro area. Other parts of the region have grown and DeKalb is not the 900 pound gorilla that it used to be.
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Old 10-15-2011, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Acworth
1,352 posts, read 4,367,826 times
Reputation: 476
lets shoot it down

if they voted for it so easily, you know its no good!
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Old 10-15-2011, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,579 posts, read 10,734,216 times
Reputation: 6552
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post

Finally, I think you are wearing blinders, man. Which is why I bypassed that first remark. You ignore my concerns and I will ignore yours. Until you and others like yourself acknowledge the potential growth and power in east Dekalb...there is nothing more to discuss on this issue.

My vote is still no.
Dude, I'm not ignoring your arguments. We just don't agree.

Don't ignore me, which you admit doing, and then argue that I didn't consider/think out the things you ignored that I wrote. That is really unfair in a debate with anyone in any issue.

There is a difference between disagreeing and ignoring. At this point the more you act like this... the more people will stop listening to you all together, especially when I am actually considering your arguments.

There are over 4 million people in this region that don't live in Dekalb Co., much less South Dekalb and Dekalb is already getting a heavier allotment of money from this tax than most other counties, even relative to population.

Even within the two MARTA counties there are lots of places that don't have a direct rail line and have to depend on buses. N. Fulton pays the same taxes and they have like two bus lines. The reason I say this is whenever we come up with a new funding source it can't be a magical bullet that does everything. Not everyone can get everything all at once. When they built MARTA (rail) it went in every direction.

The problem is the money from this one single 10 year tax can't go as far as everyone would like it to.

And I don't want to take from Southeast Dekalb's success at all. I have loved Stonecrest Mall being built. It has done alot for the area, but I have two quick comments about this too. Atlanta has never been in the habit of building rail lines towards every little retail area that has a mall. We have dozens and dozens of malls. We can't and never have used that as a justification on building a $1billion+ rail line. The other problem I have with that particular area... in the short run... that area is very suburban/exurban and is a long distance away from the city. That means whenever we do get around to building rail there it will be more expensive. That means there will have to be some more patience getting it built. It can't just be a small extension on our existing infrastructure, but instead it is a reeeally long corridor.

And if we compare that to an area like Perimeter (with Sandy Springs and Dunwoody), it isn't just a mall and a retail area. It is a major employment center with denser housing development. About as many people as works in downtown Atlanta work in the Perimeter Center area. So when I talk about that northward growth... that is what I mean. There are more jobs, more people, more businesses, and more localized denser development. I push hard for transit in Atlanta, but I do look at all these details carefully, because any funding sources we ever get have to be use cautiously, but also distributed fairly. Now we may disagree that is, but if your just ignoring people for disagreeing, then we won't have a fair conversation.
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