Need input: Atlanta vs Boston (East Point, Decatur: house, neighborhoods, school district)
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I also want to point out that it doesn't necessarily have to be a choice between suburban (Atlanta) and urban (Boston). There are lots of nice suburbs in the Boston area---and the housing gets cheaper (again, relatively speaking) the further away from the city you venture. The tradeoff is the commute, but we have an extensive commuter rail system that many people use. I think the issue is really cost of living, and what you are willing to sacrifice to live in metro Boston.
That was my point. You have to compare the towns, not the metro area. Living in Weston is a far cry from living in Worcester (Worcester is 40 miles from Boston and much more urban while Weston is 10 miles out and suburban or even semi-rural feeling), and here in Atlanta, living in Dunwoody or Douglasville is much different from living in Southwest Atlanta.
The one thing that I would add on the commuter rail point.... in Boston, most people work in Boston or inside 128. Many people live outside 128 and even outside 495, because of the cost of homes and the schools. We lived in Worcester county. You have to commute and the commuter rail is important.
Here in the Atlanta area, most of the business and corporate presence is outside the city and much of it is in the northern suburbs. Commuting is not as necessary if you live in that area anyway. Homes close to your job are usually plentiful and can be found at your budget.
Thanks to everyone who has taken the time to reply! I don't know if its telling or not, but I cross posted this in the Boston forum and have only had one short response. One of my biggest concerns is finding a group of friends and other families to connect with as we will be all alone down there. Is Atlanta friendly in that respect? Any transplants out there that found it easy or hard to connect with folks on a personal, you get invited places, have them over to your house kind of way??
@Northwinds - thanks for the heads up on the Brit ex-pats, do you know if they have a website or meet-up group??
I am familiar with the history behind the race issues/relations in the South and particularly Georgia, does anyone have any input on what to really expect from this?? Being from London and Seattle we have no idea what that really means in terms of everyday life as these two cities are so liberal and diverse in their own ways. We keep hearing people refer to it but not elaborate. Is Atlanta very segregated? Are we talking just race relations or also social issues? Are some areas worse than others and in what ways? Thanks for any honest candor here.
Just to clarify, we don't have 3-4 kids, just one so far and hoping for another soon! People keep referring to the low cost of living in Atlanta, so is it reasonable to say that an annual income of $150K is comfortable? Given child care, housing, transportation, food, gas, etc etc??
Thank you all again for stopping and helping us with things to think about!!! We feel a little overwhelmed by the decision.
I've never experienced any racial problems in or around Atlanta. I'm in an interracial relationship and both my partner and myself have only had positive experiences since we moved here 7 years ago. On the other hand we're originally from New Jersey and when living up there we did occasionally run into racism. So, I would not worry about racial problems down here.
I myself would be very wary of moving to Boston with only $150k income. Coming from the Northeast I can tell you that the cost of living up there is astronomical compared to down here. You would essentially live like royalty down here with $150k compared to Boston. But, that's really a personal decision and ultimately only you guys can determine which city would be best for the lifestyle you want to live.
You could really open an entire can of worms with the entire black/white issue in Atlanta.
It's not overt racism at all, and there isn't too terribly much segregation. Atlanta is a very black city, and as such, you see blacks everywhere. There are no real "white" areas. I mean, North Fulton is probably predominantly white, but it's not like there aren't black people too. When a black family moves in, people don't panic and worry that their housing value is going to go down. There are, however, almost all black areas of town. You'll find very nice homes in places like Lithonia and Cascade, and wonder why in the world they are so cheap. It's because those are black neighborhoods almost exclusively.
So you see, people aren't outwardly racist by any means, but race does still divide in some ways. Another example is government. Everybody knows the city of Atlanta has always been run by completely corrupt politicians, and everybody knows it's a black good old boy network where contracts are typically awarded to black owned companies and the representatives pander to the black population.....but nobody ever actually says it. I just did, but I tend to have little tact on these issues
Outer suburbs have kept MARTA out, keeping it from reaching some of the most densely populated areas. The reason? They don't want blacks coming to town in droves. I lived by Lenox mall for years, and one day it was just full of thugs and hoochies. I was chatting with one of the store owners and I said, "I remember when this was a respectable mall, in fact, one of the most upscale in the southeast. What happened here?" She pointed toward the Lenox MARTA station and just said, "MARTA came here."
So it kind of exists like that. If you're black, you can move anywhere you want and I absolutely promise you that you will never ever have a cross burned in your front yard. In fact, you'll probably be as accepted as anybody else in the neighborhood. But be prepared to dance around a few issues such as the city leadership, MARTA, and so on. A lot of this has to do with socioeconomics, but the poorest people in Atlanta are black, so you can't totally separate race from it.
Another quick thing....if you live in the city of Atlanta, and I don't care if you live in a million dollar condo in midtown on Peachtree.....you can't walk a block after dark without somebody hassling you for money. 99 times out of 100, that person is black. So that also goes a certain distance to shape the racial experience here. Having said all that, I would also say that there is probably LESS overt racism here than most other places. That's because this is an extremely heavily black area, and whites and blacks just have a very long history of living and working together and basically just getting along.
Another quick thing....if you live in the city of Atlanta, and I don't care if you live in a million dollar condo in midtown on Peachtree.....you can't walk a block after dark without somebody hassling you for money. 99 times out of 100, that person is black. So that also goes a certain distance to shape the racial experience here.
Serious exaggeration here. I probably deal with about a dozen panhandlers a week, and I walk approximately 5-10 miles in Midtown per week. I would say 1.5 panhandles per mile is probably closer to accurate. But I tend to attract fewer attempts probably because I walk fast and don't divert eyesight--I've honed my avoidance skills well in many third world cities with panhandling problems a zillion times worse than anything in America.
In downtown, the panhandling problem will be much worse than Midtown. In Buckhead, much better.
I'd say about 90-95% of panhandlers are black. But it's very tough to judge these things accurately without keeping records.
I haven't taken the time to read through all the responses...
I say Boston. It will feel more like home for your husband and flights home to London will be shorter by about 2 hours (if that matters). There are some wonderful suburbs of Boston...Lexington, Sudbury, Concord, Newton, etc. You are near the ocean, mountains, culture, city, country, anything you could want. You are used to the winter so that should be no surprise. And Massachusetts is liberal.
You could really open an entire can of worms with the entire black/white issue in Atlanta.
It's not overt racism at all, and there isn't too terribly much segregation. Atlanta is a very black city, and as such, you see blacks everywhere. There are no real "white" areas. I mean, North Fulton is probably predominantly white, but it's not like there aren't black people too. When a black family moves in, people don't panic and worry that their housing value is going to go down. There are, however, almost all black areas of town. You'll find very nice homes in places like Lithonia and Cascade, and wonder why in the world they are so cheap. It's because those are black neighborhoods almost exclusively.
So you see, people aren't outwardly racist by any means, but race does still divide in some ways. Another example is government. Everybody knows the city of Atlanta has always been run by completely corrupt politicians, and everybody knows it's a black good old boy network where contracts are typically awarded to black owned companies and the representatives pander to the black population.....but nobody ever actually says it. I just did, but I tend to have little tact on these issues
Outer suburbs have kept MARTA out, keeping it from reaching some of the most densely populated areas. The reason? They don't want blacks coming to town in droves. I lived by Lenox mall for years, and one day it was just full of thugs and hoochies. I was chatting with one of the store owners and I said, "I remember when this was a respectable mall, in fact, one of the most upscale in the southeast. What happened here?" She pointed toward the Lenox MARTA station and just said, "MARTA came here."
So it kind of exists like that. If you're black, you can move anywhere you want and I absolutely promise you that you will never ever have a cross burned in your front yard. In fact, you'll probably be as accepted as anybody else in the neighborhood. But be prepared to dance around a few issues such as the city leadership, MARTA, and so on. A lot of this has to do with socioeconomics, but the poorest people in Atlanta are black, so you can't totally separate race from it.
Another quick thing....if you live in the city of Atlanta, and I don't care if you live in a million dollar condo in midtown on Peachtree.....you can't walk a block after dark without somebody hassling you for money. 99 times out of 100, that person is black. So that also goes a certain distance to shape the racial experience here. Having said all that, I would also say that there is probably LESS overt racism here than most other places. That's because this is an extremely heavily black area, and whites and blacks just have a very long history of living and working together and basically just getting along.
You are so far off that I don't even know where to start. We understand that you dislike Atlanta, but please stop making up B.S.
As far as politics go, corruption exist all over America and the color of the guilty party should not matter considering we are all American. Atlanta city is run by an African-American currently (Mayor Kasim Reed) and he is doing an amazing job, IMO (Reed finds national stage on ‘Meet the Press' *| ajc.com)!
TJ, It is obvious that you have an obsession with race because every post so far has been about race.
To the OP, understand that Atlanta is not perfect (No place on earth is as a matter of fact), but if you come to Atlanta with an open-mind and embrace the city and its culture you will do fine here. Making friends here is actually easy. You will find that Atlanta consists of people from all over the world and all over America. You will be lucky to run into a native Atlantan.
Again, do not listen to this TJ guy. Come experience Atlanta for yourself. You will see that there is nothing to worry about in regards to race and I guarantee that!
Last edited by BeyondInfinity; 10-19-2011 at 03:00 PM..
People keep mentioning that Boston would definitely feel more like home than Atlanta for your husband, but simply "feeling like home" is probably not the best and only criteria. Given you are limited in your income, you probably won't even be able to experience that homeliness in Boston because of the high cost of living. With that, there isn't a strict dichotomy that automatically equates Atlanta to the suburbs and Boston to the city--you are much more likely to live an enjoyable urban lifestyle in Atlanta (meaning not a tiny condo, an ability to actually save money for your family to enjoy the city and not just on property taxes, etc) than in Boston.
Ultimately, it depends on what you really want. Do you want the swim/tennis clubs in a suburban gated community or do you want a vibrant, cultured urban setting and density? Either way, again given the high cost of living in Boston, Atlanta would make more sense.
As a word of caution, if you're coming from Seattle and your husband from London, suburban life may not be what you want. Far too many people come down here to get a McMansion in the outer reaches of the city and complain about Atlanta being a bland strip mall heaven. Duh, they moved to a bland, strip mall suburb!
The city itself is fuulll of character and I *love* it. Neighborhoods like Virginia-Highland, Inman Park, Poncey Highland, Old 4th Ward, Cabbagetown and areas throughout Midtown are very charming and there are a good amount of single family homes-- with yards, driveways, even a garage or two ;-).
If you want a bit of a mix (size, slower pace but still walkable, active) I'd definitely recommend the City of Decatur. Homes for Decatur and all of the above neighborhoods are a bit out of your budget, but it won't hurt to look.
If you're adventurous (i.e. white and don't mind being in an "up and coming" predominately black neighborhood) there are gorgeous homes in the Historic West End and Westview (neighborhoods that are just outside downtown Atlanta and still urban) that would probably be more likely to fit your budget. Plus, there are marta stations nearby that could get your hubby to Buckhead fairly quickly.
atlantawestend.com (http://atlantawestend.com/munity/ - broken link)
Even Historic East Point would be a good place to look. I say "Historic" because outside those bounds it's a low income suburb. BUT the historic, "downtown" area of East Point is right on the marta line and is an unexpected charmer--some cute restaurants, definite community feel, and a surprising number of yuppies in the area with lovely Craftsman homes.
An example: Chris L Hough Metro Atlanta Real Estate » Downtown & Historic East Point, GA 30344
More info on East Point: http://www.downtowneastpoint.com/photogallery/
Last edited by bizchick86; 10-19-2011 at 03:31 PM..
You are so far off that I don't even know where to start. We understand that you dislike Atlanta, but please stop making up B.S.
As far as politics go, corruption exist all over America and the color of the guilty party should not matter considering we are all American. Atlanta city is run by an African-American currently (Mayor Kasim Reed) and he is doing an amazing job, IMO (Reed finds national stage on ‘Meet the Press' *| ajc.com)!
TJ, It is obvious that you have an obsession with race because every post so far has been about race.
To the OP, understand that Atlanta is not perfect (No place on earth is as a matter of fact), but if you come to Atlanta with an open-mind and embrace the city and its culture you will do fine here. Making friends here is actually easy. You will find that Atlanta consists of people from all over the world and all over America. You will be lucky to run into a native Atlantan.
Again, do not listen to this TJ guy. Come experience Atlanta for yourself. You will see that there is nothing to worry about in regards to race and I guarantee that!
Finally, a voice of reason and accuracy.
Actually, there are several posts in this thread that should be ignored. The OP seems intelligent enough to figure out which ones.
All of these barely hidden agendas have grown way beyond tiresome.....
Hahahaha, I told you it would open a can of worms! And THAT, is the REAL racism in Atlanta. You aren't allowed to even have a conversation about it without being called a racist.
I was even accused of making nothing but posts about race, when I have never even MENTIONED it before. Truly ludicrous.
So there you have it. There's no racism in Atlanta. So long as you never plan on ever bringing it up, ever. And there are a multitude of other problems you're never allowed to mention either, because if you do, you will be accused of being racist.
I have no intention of opening that can of worms. So listen to the other posters, they are all completely correct. Everything here is great.
Last edited by ATLTJL; 10-19-2011 at 03:42 PM..
Reason: closing the can of worms
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