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Old 10-30-2011, 10:15 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
969 posts, read 1,664,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Come visit the Dallas page and you will see the same antagonistic snobbery toward suburbanites followed by fear mongering replies about crime and schools in the city.

One thing I haven't seen mentioned is that a majority of the jobs are from the perimeter outward now in both cities. Suburban office complexes and headquarters are similar in both Atlanta and Dallas. It is not all suburbanites driving downtown anymore. I would say a lot of the people living in the tony areas of North Fulton, East Cobb and North Gwinnett are not driving ITP. Same here in my neck of the woods in the North Dallas Burbs.
I see a lot of Gwinnett and Cobb license plates in Buckhead... particularly the malls. Second, I'm pretty sure if you combine Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead plus Emory/CDC area and the Airport there are more jobs ITP than the Perimeter and Cumberland areas.

Last edited by mike7586; 10-30-2011 at 10:23 AM..
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Old 10-30-2011, 11:42 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,415 posts, read 10,080,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike7586 View Post
I see a lot of Gwinnett and Cobb license plates in Buckhead... particularly the malls. Second, I'm pretty sure if you combine Downtown, Midtown and Buckhead plus Emory/CDC area and the Airport there are more jobs ITP than the Perimeter and Cumberland areas.
I used the term "a lot" instead of "all" or "most" for a reason. Of course many suburbanites do travel to points ITP for work and shopping and entertainment. Haven't seen a border guard at 285 checking plates. Yet.

I know this is anecdotal, but of my family and friends in Cobb and Cherokee, I can't think of any that go ITP for work unless you count the 3 or 4 that don't have an office commute in the normal sense but go to Hartsfield several times a month and work out of the house when they are home. Most of my connections work in Cobb, the majority that commute outside the county are heading toward the 400 corridor.

One of my college buds lives in Va Highlands and travels to Alpharetta for work. He is not alone and as mentioned earlier, reverse commutes on 400 aren't so reverse anymore.

My point is, like it or not, Atlanta is now a "region" and not so much a spoke and hub city center surrounded by traditional bedroom only suburbs. There are examples where that is still the case, but not like it was in the previous decades and I say it will be even less so in future years.
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Old 10-30-2011, 12:17 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 22,492,683 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
I used the term "a lot" instead of "all" or "most" for a reason. Of course many suburbanites do travel to points ITP for work and shopping and entertainment. Haven't seen a border guard at 285 checking plates. Yet.
Be careful. Cumberland is "ITP", but is also still in Cobb.

In fact, someone can live in Vinings, work in Cumberland, never leave Cobb County, and never go OTP. It confuses the mind...
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Old 10-30-2011, 03:55 PM
 
29,386 posts, read 26,345,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Come visit the Dallas page and you will see the same antagonistic snobbery toward suburbanites followed by fear mongering replies about crime and schools in the city.
Most of that silliness is an online phenomenon in my opinion. I've almost never run into that sort of thing in real life.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:03 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,415 posts, read 10,080,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Most of that silliness is an online phenomenon in my opinion. I've almost never run into that sort of thing in real life.
Agreed. The one exception I have found in person: The college friend I mentioned above that commutes to Alpharetta, took him forever to come to dinner at our house in Marietta. He and several in his gay community were boycotting Cobb...this was back in the 90s in the day of the Cobb Commission's anti gay lifestyle resolution. I think he wore a disguise and took circuitous backroads so no one would find out, lol. We had to hear a lot of grief from him for living in Cobb.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:06 AM
 
Location: Georgia native in McKinney, TX
7,415 posts, read 10,080,587 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rcsteiner View Post
Be careful. Cumberland is "ITP", but is also still in Cobb.

In fact, someone can live in Vinings, work in Cumberland, never leave Cobb County, and never go OTP. It confuses the mind...
Guess we need a third designation: ATP. At the Perimeter. This is where the independents live, lol.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:15 AM
 
29,386 posts, read 26,345,718 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
He and several in his gay community were boycotting Cobb...this was back in the 90s in the day of the Cobb Commission's anti gay lifestyle resolution. I think he wore a disguise and took circuitous backroads so no one would find out, lol. We had to hear a lot of grief from him for living in Cobb.
Heh! I have images of a guy driving along Concord Road in a Groucho mask.

Like most prejudices, that sort of thinking arises from lack of information. For the most part, there's actually very little difference between ITP and OTP living.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:12 PM
 
15,475 posts, read 7,894,674 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
These points could both have threads of their own, but I just wanted to comment on them both very quickly here.

I don't think feeling safe driving around an area at night is a very good barometer of safety. I mean, a place would have to be absolutely horribly unsafe for someone to not feel safe locked in a car. I think the real barometer of safety is do you feel safe WALKING around at night? That can be anywhere. For example, the neighborhood I lived in Buckhead, I walked around my neighborhood park at night all the time and never felt unsafe. And I mean the MIDDLE of the night, like 2, 3am. Where I live now in the suburbs I do the same thing all the time and it's never been an issue. Being able to walk safely at night is not only a good measure of safety, but also important to anybody who has a dog. I walk mine at all hours.

Regarding MARTA, this is a controversial subject. I agree that MARTA isn't going to bring major theft to an area. However, I remember when I used to shop at the Brookhaven Kroger, I was shocked to be panhandled for money when walking in. I talked to the manager about it and I said this is a very wealthy area, what gives with the panhandling? He just silently pointed across the street to the Brookhaven MARTA station. Then he said, "they come from there." So even though MARTA may not bring major crime, it's impossible to argue that it doesn't bring annoyances, characters that wouldn't otherwise be in the area, even if all they are doing is begging for money outside of a Kroger. That may not bother some people, but most people would say that being panhandled when you are just trying to buy groceries brings the desirablility of a neighborhood down.

Wanted to add onto your comments that it also depends on the person in regard to fear level. I live in English Avenue, which is considered a bad neighborhood and I do walk around at night and I have never been bothered or attacked or accosted. I have been asked for money, but like you mentioned, you can get asked for money anywhere here in the metro area.

I have lived in plenty of OTP burbs, primarily Cobb and a short time in Gwinnet and pretty much every time I went to the gas station (same as now) I got asked for money by panhandlers. Even in Alpharetta I was asked for money at a gas station by a nicely dressed guy who looked like a Tech student. This reminds me that I got asked for money by a young guy who looked like a student (white guy) at Atlantic Station's Target the other day. I gave him a dollar for gas money of all things! I usually get asked for money at gas stations. I think I look like a sucker. Wanted to note though that panhandlers aren't always the stinky, ratty looking guys and gals downtown. I have been panhandled by plenty of people who look nice in OTP areas where there are not Marta stations.

But anyway, I'm not afraid to walk anywhere really in Atlanta, even at night. I just don't have fear in me like that. It is always funny to me when people say that a neighborhood is too dangerous to drive through. I'm like, "if someone attacks you in their car, you can always hit them with it" LOL.

I've lived in my current neighborhood for 5 years and have never had any problems with anyone or never had any crime occur where I or my family were the victims. My van was recently broken into and someone commented to me that I shouldn't live in such a "rough neighborhood" and it was funny since I was not in my neighborhood when my van was vandalized.

ETA: I'm a woman too and I have 2 kids one of whom goes to a great charter school and I could not find any private school to match the quality of education that my son is receiving. I also rarely now go OTP since gas is so high. I usually stay within a 5 mile radius and even in my neighborhood without a lot of ammenities there is a lot of cool restaurants and activities within that radius as well as grocery stores and chain restaurants so I am not lacking in those areas.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:51 PM
 
368 posts, read 429,500 times
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In my opinion, it comes down to people placing more value on their own comfort and their children's safety and education than on the environment, health, and general welfare of the world. Those living in the suburbs typically have larger houses, higher rated schools, and lower crime rates. However, they also typically drive much more (contributing to bad air quality, obesity, etc), exercise less, and live in low-density neighborhoods that contribute to enviromental degradation in a variety of ways. I don't mean that as a value judgement, just as a statement of the facts. Certainly there are many exeptions to these generalizations, such as someone in Marietta who bikes to work in Marietta, or someone who lives in Midtown but drives to their job in Alpharetta and never takes MARTA or walks anywhere.

Personally, I chose to live intown because I think issues such as air quality, water quality, and climate change are critical. By walking more, driving less, taking MARTA, and living in a smaller more efficient apartment, I feel like I'm helping out with the problem. That being said, I at least understand why some people, especially those with children, chose to live ITP. The government has certainly helped by subsidizing the suburban lifestyle.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:54 PM
 
Location: Woodstock, GA
2,069 posts, read 3,505,606 times
Reputation: 2558
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I have been asked for money, but like you mentioned, you can get asked for money anywhere here in the metro area.

I have lived in plenty of OTP burbs, primarily Cobb and a short time in Gwinnet and pretty much every time I went to the gas station (same as now) I got asked for money by panhandlers. Even in Alpharetta I was asked for money at a gas station by a nicely dressed guy who looked like a Tech student.
I was once approached by a panhandler in a Publix in Holly Springs. But having lived out in the northern 'burbs for 15 years I have to say it is very rare.
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