STOP IT!!!Downtown Atlanta is not that bad (Franklin: DMV, price)
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That free standing waffle house or any free standing building for that matter has no business in an urban CBD. That land is way to valuable.
If it's so durn valuable, you have to wonder why has it been sitting there as an asphalt parking lot for 60 years.
You have to remember that downtown Atlanta is simply not comparable to downtown NYC, Washington, DC or the major transit focused downtowns of the world.
In Atlanta, the focus of activity began shifting away from downtown in the 1970s. Most of the major banks, insurance companies, accounting and legal firms, brokerage houses and other high end employers moved to Midtown, Buckhead and outside the Perimeter. The same thing happened with dining, retail and residential development.
So downtown was hit very hard. Unlike some cities, downtown was not the hub and it's not where businesses scrambled to be.
Fortunately, Atlanta has always had a lot of folks who continued to care about downtown even though they may have lived or worked elsewhere. Hence much influence was brought to bear to keep state, federal and local government offices downtown, to build sports, university and convention facilities downtown, and to pour money into downtown via transportation improvements, entertainment and tax incentives.
Even with all that it has been an uphill struggle. Our downtown has turned the corner but it's still not in a position to be ultra picky.
And let me say again that the Waffle House is a special part of Atlanta history. It's urban, it's open 24/365 and it's clean and safe. It's a place where local residents, tourists and officer workers can go. No, it is not Cafe Rue de Paris but it is vastly better than an asphalt parking lot.
I have little doubt that Waffle House paid the going rate for the property and that the city will be glad to have their presence and their tax revenues.
The waffle house is not the problem. I didn't expect it to have a parking lot either. It's the low intensity use of such high value land in the CBD near a Marta stop. Even when this waffle house is built, the planning board will continue to allow low intensity buildings in the CBD or near Marta stations. It's the mindset that has to change. One or two story new construction and development should not be permitted near a Marta Station or in the CBD period.
You obviously know nothing of the midtown Walfle House and how it is built different from the others and how it merges with the urban fabric. Quit trolling.
If it's so durn valuable, you have to wonder why has it been sitting there as an asphalt parking lot for 60 years.
You have to remember that downtown Atlanta is simply not comparable to downtown NYC, Washington, DC or the major transit focused downtowns of the world.
In Atlanta, the focus of activity began shifting away from downtown in the 1970s. Most of the major banks, insurance companies, accounting and legal firms, brokerage houses and other high end employers moved to Midtown, Buckhead and outside the Perimeter. The same thing happened with dining, retail and residential development.
So downtown was hit very hard. Unlike some cities, downtown was not the hub and it's not where businesses scrambled to be.
Fortunately, Atlanta has always had a lot of folks who continued to care about downtown even though they may have lived or worked elsewhere. Hence much influence was brought to bear to keep state, federal and local government offices downtown, to build sports, university and convention facilities downtown, and to pour money into downtown via transportation improvements, entertainment and tax incentives.
Even with all that it has been an uphill struggle. Our downtown has turned the corner but it's still not in a position to be ultra picky.
And let me say again that the Waffle House is a special part of Atlanta history. It's urban, it's open 24/365 and it's clean and safe. It's a place where local residents, tourists and officer workers can go. No, it is not Cafe Rue de Paris but it is vastly better than an asphalt parking lot.
I have little doubt that Waffle House paid the going rate for the property and that the city will be glad to have their presence and their tax revenues.
While I don't totally agree with your post arjay, you do bring up several good points that people who get on a soapbox about all of the problems with Downtown Atlanta don't take time to consider: The "how and why" of how it came to look the way it does is not a simple matter.
As I mentioned a few pages before, the Centennial Olympic park area was once an industrial area built in the late 19th century. Like a lot of industrial areas from that era it wasn't built with a lot of things in mind like accomading tourists or cohesive urban neighborhood. It was filled with factories and warehouses and what you see today is the remnants of that.
Another thing that was brought was the Gulch or that gigantic parking deck and open area near Philips Arena and the Dome (and by proxy the derth of development in South Downtown). To the casual internet urban expert it may appear that those areas were built just to serve an autocentric lifestyle. That would be wrong. That area half a century ago was one of the largest passenger rail hubs in North America.
Pre-Urban renewal
Post Urban renewal
http://www.flickr.com/photos/11035256@N05/2541770372/ (broken link)
Unfortunately, passenger rail service fell out of use in much of the country and those train lines (after sitting idle for several years) were ripped up in 60s and 70s when "Urban Renewal" was still in style. Compounding problems, the 70s and 80s were tough economic times for the city of Atlanta as it faced deindustrialization so those areas were not redeveloped. It wasn't until the Olympics came along when Downtown finally started back on it's ascendance.
What you see today in Downtown Atlanta isn't perfect, but we're not starting from scratch and there are other very long term issues that while not fixed are being addressed. If anyone questions that, just look at the difference between the first picture and the second in how far Downtown Atlanta has come in the last 30 years:
Your ridiculous previous post on this thread perhaps?
Quote:
Originally Posted by cityfilms
For the first time in 2 years, I took a drive through downtown to waste time before heading out in midtown one night. I saw deserted streets with tourists riding around in those white horse carriages, one carriage had a homeless crazy woman screaming at the family and running after them. The look on that family's face was priceless. I having a feeling they won't be coming back, by choice... maybe just LAYOVER, LMAO.
What I also notice about Atlanta is how there is not any holiday feeling here, no personality, no decorations, nada. I can't wait to be moving to Denver soon where there is a real vibrant downtown shopping district with christmas decorations everywhere and happy people who don't NEED to start internet threads about how bad their downtown ISN'T, LMAO...
Well you may be used to how it is at your local shopping mall or whatever Mayberry Downtown you are used to, but why would there need to be holiday decorations up several weeks before Thanksgiving?
FYI, people wouldn't have to start threads about how bad Downtown isn't if people didn't treat it as if it were a warzone that merely visiting would cause you to die.
I get what MDAllstar is saying and he is right on certain levels. He's saying that building a waffle house (and only a waffle house) on a parcel of land focused on becoming higher density will not do anything to add to the development of becoming a more urban environment. In fact, down the line when someone IS ready to build a major building there, it will make it harder and ultimately, detract from what could be.
The thing is that as of right now, it's only a parking lot and it will be a quick build. Later down the line when someone is interested, they will get in contact with Waffle House and work out something to get the major development there. Happens all the time. Most likely it would probably entail a monetary deal and the new development down the line when finished will have a ground level Waffle House to replace the old one. If the location just isn't making money, the development team might just purchase the land from Waffle House and do whatever they want with it.
Yep. This is basically exactly what happened in Midtown with the Suntrust branch on 4th Street. Georgia Tech really wants a cohesive district in Midtown, but there was a branch bank sitting right in their path. So GT offered to pay cash to relocate the branch bank, establishing an identical, free-standing one a block to the south.
While it sucks that there is a brand new, free-standing branch bank in Midtown, this is what Georgia Tech is planning to build on the that particular plot in its place:
Yes, this is the historic facade integrated into the front of the 24-story beauty (thanks Atlanta Preservation Society and other community leaders!):
Photo credit: me
So yeah, this kind of relocation of transitional land use definitely can and will happen, so hopefully in a few more years someone will come along with a proposal that has the bank relocated to a more permanent type of setting (and maybe the Waffle House, too?).
^What a great find! Thanks testa50, this is fantastic news.
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