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The Georgia Dome IS in an urban setting. What part of this do you not understand?
And as you were told earlier, the parking lot on the right that you supposedly have parked in was built on several years ago by the GWCC's most recent expansion.
No, Im talking about the parking lot on the other side of the street. You have to cross the street to get to the WCC. Which lot are you talking about? I was just there in the summer of 2010 at an event. Unless they built something since then, I parked there.
Development is already there. You are the one in denial.
You need to see this area in person, not on google maps. And no, I don't believe you have ever seen this neighborhood.
This is hilarious. And, I also parked off site near those towers on a side street about three streets up from the stadium when I couldn't find parking another day. You might want to give it up. I have been all through Atlanta. I went to school in the south. Roll Tide! Used to come to Atlanta for events. Visited all the time. I have family all up and through Atlanta also. So does my wife. Had friends that went to Clark and used to go to their homecoming also.
The Dome is clearly in an urban setting. If it were any closer to the street on Northside Drive it would be impractical. You need a wide sidewalks and some plazas to move the crowds in an out.
Could the area around the Dome be developed in a more interesting and lively fashion? Of course, but there's simply no demand for it at this time. The land across the street around the MARTA station has been available for ages, but I imagine the church wants a pretty penny for it.
On the other hand, I love what's been going on the east side of the Dome. The Congress Center, Philips Arena, the recent improvements to Marietta Street, COP, all the restaurants, and many other things. That whole area has urbanized immensely and is better than it has ever been.
The Dome is clearly in an urban setting. If it were any closer to the street on Northside Drive it would be impractical. You need a wide sidewalks and some plazas to move the crowds in an out.
Could the area around the Dome be developed in a more interesting and lively fashion? Of course, but there's simply no demand for it at this time. The land across the street around the MARTA station has been available for ages, but I imagine the church wants a pretty penny for it.
On the other hand, I love what's been going on the east side of the Dome. The Congress Center, Philips Arena, the recent improvements to Marietta Street, COP, all the restaurants, and many other things. That whole area has urbanized immensely and is better than it has ever been.
Completely agree with everything you said. If you go back a couple pages, I said there were surface parking lots and John said every parking lot around the Dome was covered parking so we started to debate. Before that, I was saying that unless a stadium is developed on all four sides, it doesn't belong downtown. I know development is not in demand around the stadium. There are parking lots in the middle of downtown Atlanta and midtown that need to be developed first before anything happens on the fringes like the area by the Georgia Dome. Developers are going to built out those area's before they touch that area. It may be 20-30 years but it will happen. Just give it time.
Completely agree with everything you said. If you go back a couple pages, I said there were surface parking lots and John said every parking lot around the Dome was covered parking so we started to debate. Before that, I was saying that unless a stadium is developed on all four sides, it doesn't belong downtown. I know development is not in demand around the stadium. There are parking lots in the middle of downtown Atlanta and midtown that need to be developed first before anything happens on the fringes like the area by the Georgia Dome. Developers are going to built out those area's before they touch that area. It may be 20-30 years but it will happen. Just give it time.
Don't put words in my mouth. YOU said the Dome was surrounded by surface parking lots on all sides, which is patently false. You then stated that you had to cross railroad tracks to reach Phillips/CNN. Also patently false. This all smacks as someone who has never set foot in the neighborhood.
I assume you are joking but I will answer anyway. Case and point. If the Georgia Dome were in an urban setting, if you walked out the Georgia Dome entrance facing Vine City Marta station, in an urban model, you would be at the curb first of all. The sidewalk would front the street with very little room between the street and the entrance to the stadium. If you crossed the street. You would run into another building on the other side. Instead, you run into wide open space, pavement where people can set up tables and sell stuff etc. etc. If you turn right and walk, you run into more open space and parking lots. I know because I have parked here. Now rewind, if you turn left when you come out the stadium, you are in the other parking lot. This model is nothing like the Georgia tech stadium. There are buildings that come right up to the stadium walls. The moral to the story about the stadium is building density. Way to much wasted space around the Georgia Dome. It will improve though. Development will come. It is what it is right now though. John is just in denial thinking it is developed.
Density does not happen without a need.the fact that the Convention Center Expansion with a whole new side is proof that that area continues to densify as the need grows.There simply not that much on that side of town.
Think of the area in Philadelphia where the South Philadelphia Sports Complex is.
That area is VERY spread out with little density.Philly everywhere else is very dense.They are building exactly what you say is needed here.However look at this picture of that development and tell me whats wrong?
Basically what they are planning is similar to what something similar to what Atlanta already has but with 10x more parking!!
Cities like Baltimore have to tear down stuff to make room for these facilities or either they grew up around existing facilities as Bobby Dodd was already planned from conception.Same is true in Chicago.Look at Wrigley Field.
Im sorry but all you have to do is ask the local business if the make money during these games.I bet you they would HATE to see them go.Just face it.this works for Atlanta.This was a key element why Atlanta was awarded the Olympic Games.It was one of the few cities that had such a large concenration of venues.
Density does not happen without a need.the fact that the Convention Center Expansion with a whole new side is proof that that area continues to densify as the need grows.There simply not that much on that side of town.
Think of the area in Philadelphia where the South Philadelphia Sports Complex is.
That area is VERY spread out with little density.Philly everywhere else is very dense.They are building exactly what you say is needed here.However look at this picture of that development and tell me whats wrong?
Basically what they are planning is similar to what something similar to what Atlanta already has but with 10x more parking!!
Cities like Baltimore have to tear down stuff to make room for these facilities or either they grew up around existing facilities as Bobby Dodd was already planned from conception.Same is true in Chicago.Look at Wrigley Field.
Im sorry but all you have to do is ask the local business if the make money during these games.I bet you they would HATE to see them go.Just face it.this works for Atlanta.This was a key element why Atlanta was awarded the Olympic Games.It was one of the few cities that had such a large concenration of venues.
That development would be absolutely horrible if it were in "center city" downtown Philly. It is not in center city though. It's way out far away from the dense building density in center city. A development like that could never be built in center city which is what I have been getting at for downtown Atlanta. That complex in Philly is outside of downtown. If Atlanta built a complex like this way outside of downtown in an area that will always be low density with plenty of invaluable land, then I would have no problem. That is what the suburbs are made for. But downtown's should only have either arenas that don't provide any surface parking at all or stadiums that don't provide any surface parking at all. Nobody is saying Atlanta needs to build 10 high rises tomorrow around the Georgia Dome. I'm just saying planning and investment in that area will go along way. Demand can be created if Atlanta makes that area a target. You can use Transfer of Development Rights in other parts of the city. Make that district a receiving area.
On a side note, Philadelphia is actually a great example of regional planning gone wrong though. Many of the jobs have left the city and been placed in area's where there is no rail access like KOP in Philly. A lot of that has to do with the tax structure in the city and low demand in the city. That is the reason Philadelphia has such low rail transit ridership for northeastern standards with such an extensive system, when it should be extremly high with the density being so high in the city. The problem is, the jobs aren't in the city anymore. If they placed their jobs along Septa lines only, they would be in much better shape.
Last edited by MDAllstar; 12-09-2011 at 03:30 PM..
That development would be absolutely horrible if it were in "center city" downtown Philly. It is not in center city though. It's way out far away from the dense building density in center city. A development like that could never be built in center city which is what I have been getting at for downtown Atlanta. That complex in Philly is outside of downtown. If Atlanta built a complex like this way outside of downtown in an area that will always be low density with plenty of invaluable land, then I would have no problem. That is what the suburbs are made for. But downtown's should only have either arenas that don't provide any surface parking at all or stadiums that don't provide any surface parking at all. Nobody is saying Atlanta needs to build 10 high rises tomorrow around the Georgia Dome. I'm just saying planning and investment in that area will go along way. Demand can be created if Atlanta makes that area a target. You can use Transfer of Development Rights in other parts of the city. Make that district a receiving area.
On a side note, Philadelphia is actually a great example of regional planning gone wrong though. Many of the jobs have left the city and been placed in area's where there is no rail access like KOP in Philly. A lot of that has to do with the tax structure in the city and low demand in the city. That is the reason Philadelphia has such low rail transit ridership for northeastern standards with such an extensive system, when it should be extremly high with the density being so high in the city. The problem is, the jobs aren't in the city anymore. If they placed their jobs along Septa lines only, they would be in much better shape.
That area is less than 6 miles from Legislative Hall.I admit further than the area in Atlanta but still relatively close and significant in the same manner.I mean that its still Downtown but it residential with more single family dwelling type houses.However that area is even less developed than the area by the Dome in Atlanta by far.There is no EXISTING DENSITY in that area but its still close to the Downtown center.
Philly can build high rises if they want It.There is enough open space in that area.Atlanta does not have THAT much open space to build something similar(or at least on that scale with parking).
Castleberry Hill was where the focus was before the economy drained.It still is to some extent because that area is walking distance to the Dome yet is a mixed retail,live and entertainment area.The parking lots across the street border a neighborhood with single family dwellings and a college.
There really is no need or demand for the parking areas other than...PARKING!!You have the idea that "build it and they will come."
It's quiet & peaceful on the weekends & holidays and would make a good location for families for that reason as well, I suppose.
The population of "residents" seems to be very low at around 25,000! That's great for a personality like me that doesn't want to be around a pop. density like NYC (claustrophobic?).
This is a market bottom and the prices for real estate are the best relative not just to other ATL areas BUT other cities with "downtowns" :-).
I don't blame people for feeling some negative vibes but after having lived in the 'burbs, I'm definitely going with downtown as my favorite part of Atlanta.
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