HOT Lanes no longer make me BOIL but I still simmer. (Atlanta: cost, move to)

[bu2]

Originally Posted by arjay57

I'm not sure I completely agree with that critique. Don't Dallas and Houston basically have the same setup we do? That is, three major freeways converging in the central city area with a ring road about 8 or 10 miles out?

Originally Posted by arjay57

Don't forget we've also added GA400, the Stone Mountain Freeway, I-675, Langford Parkway, etc.

However, I agree that the metro area has dropped the ball by not building enough arterial roads out in the suburbs. That's where the vast majority of people live and work and there simply aren't enough good roads.

If you want to get into the central city (i.e., Buckhead, Midtown or downtown) or to the airport, you've got a lot of options including mass transit. But those aren't the primary destinations for most people.

The critique is 100% right. A transit expert made the same comment in the aJC about the arterials, adding that Atlanta's were 19th of the 20 top metro areas (having been in all of them, Seattle is the only place I would consider close to as bad as they are limited by Puget Sound and Mountains). There are very few options in the city which is where the arterials are the absolute worst.

As for freeways, Atlanta's are very limited. To compare to Houston inside Loop 285:
Atlanta Houston
A) Loop 285 Beltway 8 tollroad
B) I-20 EW I-10 EW
C) I-75 NW-SE I-45 NW-SE
D) I-85 NE-SW US 59 (soon I-69) NE-SW
BUT-45 and 59 run separate, not together for 7 miles like 75/85
E) Langford Pkwy Memorial Drive runs 4 miles or so as freeway into downtown
G) GA 400 Hardy Toll Road
BUT Houston is acquiring ROW to extend Hardy Toll Road the last 5 miles into downtown
H) Stone Mnt Fwy Texas 225 runs about 12 miles as freeway, 6 inside Beltway 8 not just 1 mile like Stone Mnt Fwy

And that's it for Atlanta inside 285 (like Atlanta with 575, 675 etc., Houston has 249, Nasa Pkwy, Texas City Fwy, Bob Lanier Fwy, Spur 330 outside Beltway 8-And Houston has completed part of its 3rd loop )
Houston still has:
H) Loop 610-Beltway 8 is about the same distance as 285, but Houston's 1st loop is about 5-8 miles from downtown
I) US 290 NW from 610 out about 40 miles
J) US 90 NE from 610 out about 15 miles
K) Spur 5-runs SE several miles parallel to I-45 and is first step of planned Texas 35 Frwy from downtown to the 3rd loop
L) Ft. Bend Parkway SW from just outside Loop 610 out about 10 miles
M) Westpark Toll Road W from just outside Loop 610 out about 20 miles
N) TX 288 South Frwy from downtown out about 25 miles
In addition Houston has a 4 lane tollroad in the middle of I-10 W and is planning a Hempstead Toll Road to the NW between I-10 and US 290.

The comparison with Dallas/Ft. Worth would be similar, but more complicated with the dual city centers. Even San Antonio is comparable with 1/3 the people
285 vs. 410
I-20 vs. I-10
I-85 vs. I-35
I-75 vs. US 90 W and I-37
GA 400 vs. McAlister Fwy
Stone Mtn vs. TX 16
Landford vs. Texas 151
And San Antonio's 2nd loop, TX 1604 is a complete arterial with freeway across the northern part of the city.

Atlanta's lack of freeway access and good arterials encourage sprawl to suburbs where its easier to get around or to move jobs to other cities.

[bu2]

Toll roads are here to stay. The federal gas tax hasn't been increased since 1991 and the cost of living has doubled. The cost of construction has gone up closer to 300%. So the same $ only go 1/3 as far.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by bu2

The critique is 100% right. A transit expert made the same comment in the aJC about the arterials, adding that Atlanta's were 19th of the 20 top metro areas (having been in all of them, Seattle is the only place I would consider close to as bad as they are limited by Puget Sound and Mountains). There are very few options in the city which is where the arterials are the absolute worst.

Thanks for the clarification. Frankly it sounds like we are hopelessly up the creek. We couldn't build that many roads in 50 years, even if we had the money, which we don't.

[architect77]

The entire country is in store for a rude awakening regarding the gas tax at both the federal and state level. In a few short years automobiles will be averaging twice the mpg that they got 10-15 years ago. With gas taxes pegged to per gallon usage, at this very moment revenues have probably fallen way below what they were 20 years ago, yet we all know maintenance and construction costs grow higher every day.

Something drastic will have to be done to the formula soon.

[architect77]

Here are pics of North Carolina's 1st Toll Road: The Triangle Expressway. The first 3.5 mile segment opened today.




Here's the local news report:
Officials say NC's first toll road won't be its last :: WRAL.com

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by architect77

Here are pics of North Carolina's 1st Toll Road: The Triangle Expressway. The first 3.5 mile segment opened today.

North Carolina has got it going on.

[neil0311]

Originally Posted by arjay57

North Carolina has got it going on.

Not really. I spend a lot of time in Charlotte and Raleigh, and drive around both cities and sometimes to Greensboro and between them. Their interstate highways have not generally been widened in Charlotte or updated and need repaving in quite a few areas.

There are some newer and updated segments of highway in NC, but nothing significantly more than Georgia.

[testa50]

Pretty major news on the HOT front:

GDOT cancels public-private I-75/I-575 toll project - Atlanta Business Chronicle

There's definitely more to this story than we're hearing right now. Ah well, I kinda like the HOT idea, but I'm not in love with it.

[tonygeorgia]

Originally Posted by testa50

Pretty major news on the HOT front:

GDOT cancels public-private I-75/I-575 toll project - Atlanta Business Chronicle

There's definitely more to this story than we're hearing right now. Ah well, I kinda like the HOT idea, but I'm not in love with it.

Thank god

[mike7586]

Originally Posted by neil0311

Not really. I spend a lot of time in Charlotte and Raleigh, and drive around both cities and sometimes to Greensboro and between them. Their interstate highways have not generally been widened in Charlotte or updated and need repaving in quite a few areas.

There are some newer and updated segments of highway in NC, but nothing significantly more than Georgia.

I pretty much grew up in Charlotte and my parents still live there, so I like to keep track of what goes on around NC... and while no metro area in NC can currently top the infrastructure in metro Atlanta... it's very possible Charlotte and/or Raleigh will in the future if we continue at our current pace.

Here are current road and rail projects in NC:

Building the final 6 miles of the 485 loop, rebuilding the 485/85 interchange, and widening 7 miles of I-85 to 4 lanes in each direction.

NCDOT: I-485 Charlotte Outer Loop

Widening/rebuilding of the I-85 Yadkin River bridge and parallel bridges (rail and US 29/70) as well as widening 4 miles of I-85 to connect with the widened portions north and south of the bridge.

NCDOT: I-85 Corridor Improvement Project

Building 18 miles of the Triangle Expressway toll road which is an extension of I-540 around Raleigh which will eventually be similar to I-285, except the majority will be a toll road.

NCDOT: Triangle Expressway
NCDOT: Triangle Expressway Southeast Extension

The Monroe Bypass... 19 mile toll road to bypass US74 around growing suburbs of Charlotte.

NCDOT: Monroe Connector Bypass

Commuter rail from downtown Charlotte to Mooresville/Lake Norman is moving forward... this requires cooperation of the city, several towns, 2 counties, and the state (which will pay for 25%, something GA would never do!)... and unlike the Atlanta area, they can work together to make something happen... you would never hear this around here:

Mooresville Mayor Miles Atkins said he has many questions about the plan. But with governments working together on such initiatives, he said, "this region could continue to grow and prosper." [LEFT]
Read more: Commuter rail funding discussed | CharlotteObserver.com & The Charlotte Observer Newspaper
[/LEFT]

The commuter rail project also upgrades the freight rail line, so it serves a dual economic purpose. The state has also been upgrading the tracks between Charlotte and Raleigh and travel time between the two has been reduced to about 2 hours (competitive with driving) and it has become popular enough that they have added another train to the schedule.

Light rail line extension from downtown Charlotte to UNCC has won key federal approval and has 25% dedicated funding from the state of NC (again, something GA would never do for MARTA).

Charlotte light rail extension wins key federal approval - News14.com

They also plan to widen 485 in South Charlotte from two lanes in each direction to 3 lanes plus one HOT lane in 2013, as well as a flyover ramp at the Johnston Rd interchange. I-77 north of Charlotte is also slated to be widened with HOT lanes and the existing HOV lanes will be converted to HOT lanes.

I-485 widening project in south Charlotte could include additional lane - News14.com

Toll lane plan for I-77 could be good news for drivers - News14.com

These are all projects that will be built within the next 5-10 years (most are under construction NOW or will be soon)... the only major project for Georgia was the I-75/575 HOT lanes which are now unlikely to be built anytime soon. If the transportation referendum fails, we will pretty much be doing nothing. Hard to compete with that, no?