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Old 03-28-2012, 02:05 PM
JPD
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
It's not an issue of doing nothing. It's doing something that doesn't need to be done. If it is time for inter-city rail to return, it will happen. The tracks are laid, RoW is there, we even have railroad companies in place. They will pick up on passenger rail if the market is right for it.
But it does need to be done, clearly and obviously.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:12 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, the principle of Occam's Razor is that "other things being equal..."

That's hardly the situation when it comes to comparing passenger rail with air and automobile travel.

Well, I think the basic principles are the same. All three have the same objective. Passenger rail couldn't compete. Only in a few cases does passenger rail work and that seems to be in VERY dense corridors like the northeast.

The one area where trains win out is in moving freight. Unfortunately we can't pack and stack people the same way.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
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I don't know the specific numbers of people that would take that route or how many would be needed for this to make sense, but it certainly seems like the kind of city-pair that would make sense. A train route would be a connection between Georgia's largest metro area and it's third largest metro area, which also happens to be a very popular tourist destination. The distance is pretty much the perfect distance for train travel: about 250 miles. It is my understanding that rail advocates cite 100 to 500 miles as the distance where train travel works best (less than 100 miles, you are better off driving; while over 500 miles you are better off flying).

I would love to see Atlanta as a passenger rail hub in the southeast, connecting to Charlotte (and Raleigh), Birmingham, Chattanooga (and on to Nashville), Savannah, and Jacksonville (and on to Orlando). All of those places are over 100 and less than 500 miles from Atlanta.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:14 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JPD View Post
But it does need to be done, clearly and obviously.
And again I ask, why hasn't Amtrak, Norfolk Southern, or CSX responded? They should recognize the market better than anyone.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:17 PM
JPD
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
And again I ask, why hasn't Amtrak, Norfolk Southern, or CSX responded? They should recognize the market better than anyone.
Like most large organizations, they're old and slow and as far as the future is concerned, they only care about the end of the current profit quarter, and not ten years from now.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:19 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
First I have to know if there is a problem of getting to Savannah and back, and secondly are there a lot of people needing to do this and the infrastructure is at overcapacity.
Was that an answer? I'm not even sure what it meant. I wasn't asking specifically about a Savannah route (although that is the topic at hand), I was talking about transportation options overall. What sorts of things would you want to see done to help alleviate future issues?
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:20 PM
JPD
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by po-boy View Post
I don't know the specific numbers of people that would take that route or how many would be needed for this to make sense, but it certainly seems like the kind of city-pair that would make sense. A train route would be a connection between Georgia's largest metro area and it's third largest metro area, which also happens to be a very popular tourist destination. The distance is pretty much the perfect distance for train travel: about 250 miles. It is my understanding that rail advocates cite 100 to 500 miles as the distance where train travel works best (less than 100 miles, you are better off driving; while over 500 miles you are better off flying).

I would love to see Atlanta as a passenger rail hub in the southeast, connecting to Charlotte (and Raleigh), Birmingham, Chattanooga (and on to Nashville), Savannah, and Jacksonville (and on to Orlando). All of those places are over 100 and less than 500 miles from Atlanta.
I agree. There is an enormous opportunity to make Georgia a much more attractive tourist destination. We already have the airport. Combining that with a rail system to Savannah, we could turn a two day stopover state into a week long (or longer) vacation, similar to how people move around in Europe. This could significantly boost the amount of tourist dollars spent in this state.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:26 PM
 
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Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Like most large organizations, they're old and slow and as far as the future is concerned, they only care about the end of the current profit quarter, and not ten years from now.
And the government owned Amtrak is a money pit itself. Unfortunately, this requires large organizations as the capital investments are huge. No Mark Zuckerberg wunderkinds coming on the scene here. But Norfolk Southern and CSX demonstrate creative ideas with their container stacking and shared bogie on the rolling stock.


EMU - shared bogie - YouTube
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:35 PM
 
6,907 posts, read 4,370,323 times
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Originally Posted by JPD View Post
I agree. There is an enormous opportunity to make Georgia a much more attractive tourist destination. We already have the airport. Combining that with a rail system to Savannah, we could turn a two day stopover state into a week long (or longer) vacation, similar to how people move around in Europe. This could significantly boost the amount of tourist dollars spent in this state.
That rail route like rail in Europe would be a money loser. We wouldn't make back the investment in terms of tourist dollars spent. Smaller jets to make the hop down to Savannah would probably be better.
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Old 03-28-2012, 02:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Well, I think the basic principles are the same. All three have the same objective. Passenger rail couldn't compete. Only in a few cases does passenger rail work and that seems to be in VERY dense corridors like the northeast.
You're mixing apples and oranges there, Mathman. Take away the government built and maintained highways, roads, bridges, airports and the vast human capital necessary to design, operate, coordinate and police them. Then see how they compete economically against rail.

Regarding density, don't forget my earlier post pointing out that the density of the Southern seaboard states is comparable to that of France. France has a population of 65 million in 261,000 sm. That's 249 people per square mile.

The southern seaboard states -- MD, VA, NC, SC, GA and FL -- comprise about the same area (264,000 sm) with a population of 58 million. That's 218 per square mile.

AJC: Terminal would be a "game-changer"

It's not about density per se, but more about how society chooses to allocate subsidies. We're a car and air travel country, and thus we devote massive resources to supporting those modes of transportation.

That's not inherently good or bad, nor does it address free market competition. It's simply the direction we decided to go here in the U.S.

Of course the fact that we chose a particular course doesn't mean we're stuck with it for time immemorial. We can make changes if we deem them desirable. At least that is true now. We may be entering an era where our opportunities to make those decisions is rapidly drying up.
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