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Old 03-30-2012, 12:32 PM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,251,700 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by jpatlanta View Post
The problem is the lines are so busy right now and the fee is so high for Amtrack to use them. As I posted before if you ride the train (I do sometimes) between Atlanta and DC nearly always the cabins are sold out weeks before. No question Amtrack want to add more capacity.

Also remember GA gives massive subsidies to Delta and the airport.

If there was a train between Atlanta and Savanah it would be extremely busy at the weekends for example.
Seriously, just run some numbers to see how monumentally stupid this proposal is.

How many people go from Atlanta to Savannah a year?
How many of those (even optimistically) could you convince to ride a train to Savannah?
How much money would be spent on a HSR line to Savannah?
What is a reasonable fare for the line considering you can take a 4.5 hour bus there for just $54 (roundtrip price)?
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Old 03-30-2012, 12:58 PM
JPD
 
7,741 posts, read 7,890,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post

How many people go from Atlanta to Savannah a year?
Well, you obviously also have to ask how many people go from Savannah to Atlanta every year. The answer is: a hell of a lot, both ways.

You also have to ask how many people would go to Savannah (or Atlanta) if they didn't have to do that extremely boring drive to get there.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:08 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Well, you obviously also have to ask how many people go from Savannah to Atlanta every year. The answer is: a hell of a lot, both ways.

You also have to ask how many people would go to Savannah (or Atlanta) if they didn't have to do that extremely boring drive to get there.
So what is your guess? You have to have some sort of projection other than "a helluva lot" if you seriously think the plan is financially viable? Right?
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:13 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
9,913 posts, read 14,204,821 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Well, you obviously also have to ask how many people go from Savannah to Atlanta every year. The answer is: a hell of a lot, both ways.

You also have to ask how many people would go to Savannah (or Atlanta) if they didn't have to do that extremely boring drive to get there.
My wife and I would be in the latter group ... we'd probably go a few times a year.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:18 PM
 
2,827 posts, read 2,374,600 times
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How many would go from Macon to Atlanta?
Griffin to Atlanta?
Macon to Savannah?

This isn't a teleportation portal. It's a train. It will probably have half a dozen stops along its length, at least. It would work perfectly in conjunction with the Lovejoy/Macon commuter train, which would already get us a third of the way to Savannah. Running between Macon and Savannah is a shortline railroad--those tend to have a lot lower volumes and be more open to serious passenger operations than the Class I's (note the private rail proposal in Florida is being done by a shortline).

I think the ideal route would be Atlanta - Athens - Augusta - Savannah (30 miles longer than just Atlanta - Savannah as the crow flies), but there is no rail line it makes any sense running that route so it doesn't seem possible.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:20 PM
JPD
 
7,741 posts, read 7,890,685 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
So what is your guess? You have to have some sort of projection other than "a helluva lot" if you seriously think the plan is financially viable? Right?
Of course I don't. What do you think this forum is? I don't expect it to be any more financially viable than any other mode of transportation.

Some things cost money. Not everything makes money. The sooner you realize that the better.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:38 PM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,251,700 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JPD View Post
Some things cost money. Not everything makes money. The sooner you realize that the better.
It is easy to spend fictitious money with no grasp of fiscal reality, but here in the real world, things that hemorrhage money at a ridiculous pace aren't good. The sooner you realize that the better.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:46 PM
 
Location: Georgia
2,272 posts, read 1,258,026 times
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Mathman...I don't even know where to start.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Yup. We made it to the moon from essentially scratch in less than 10 years. Americans can achieve a lot when we put our minds to something. Besides, the need to convert to trains, if it comes, is unlikely to give us short notice.
If our current political climate persists, which I hope it doesn't, it'll take forever to get any such thing going. Meanwhile Europe continues to expand its high-speed network, and China now has the largest high-speed rail network in the world. And it's still growing. Where do we stand?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Well, Amtrak is massively subsidized too and they don't go directly to Savannah from Atlanta. If there is enough traffic between Savannah and Atlanta, Amtrak will pick up on it. They are desperate for profitable routes.
And our roads are not subsidized?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
And again I ask, why hasn't Amtrak, Norfolk Southern, or CSX responded? They should recognize the market better than anyone.
So in other words, profit is more important than benefit to society. I'm sorry but that's not how public services work. They are judged based on their contributions to society, not just their P&L statement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
That rail route like rail in Europe would be a money loser. We wouldn't make back the investment in terms of tourist dollars spent. Smaller jets to make the hop down to Savannah would probably be better.
Wut...why would people drive to the airport, wait in a security line, wait for their airplane, wait some more when the flight gets delayed, wait for their bags at the arrival airport, and wait for their rental car, all at a far greater expense than driving or taking a train, yet about the same overall time for a trip the size of Atlanta-Savannah? Those types of trip lengths are perfect for rail.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:49 PM
 
Location: Georgia
2,272 posts, read 1,258,026 times
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Also, don't forget--we don't need a brand-new, high-speed network just yet. Existing freight rail tracks could be used for the entire route. This means that capital costs would only consist of the trains, stations, equipment, and maintenance stations. The rail itself would already be there.
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Old 03-30-2012, 02:50 PM
 
2,210 posts, read 1,251,700 times
Reputation: 813
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Wut...why would people drive to the airport, wait in a security line, wait for their airplane, wait some more when the flight gets delayed, wait for their bags at the arrival airport, and wait for their rental car, all at a far greater expense than driving or taking a train, yet about the same overall time for a trip the size of Atlanta-Savannah? Those types of trip lengths are perfect for rail.
How come no one on the "pro Sav-Atl" rail side is willing to even try to put together some sort of projections?

I put some together and will share what I have once someone shows their projection. The cost or operations, maintenance and initial investment are not pretty. No wonder no one will share their rough estimates.
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