Consultant: Atlanta's traffic is endangering its growth (Columbus, Savannah: condos, headhunters)

[Noc]

Lots of places have transportation funding problems, but Atlanta's congestion is the second worst in the nation, Donovan noted, and "the planning and funding to make sure this wouldn't happen hasn't been done."

I sure hope the power that be are reading this.

http://www.ajc.com/metro/content/metro/stories/2007/12/17/traffic_1218_web.html?cxntlid=homepage_tab_newstab (broken link)

[KevK]

Well duh. It took them this long to figure that out? Fact is that word has been out a long time in corporate suites here about the fact that headhunters are often told "no thanks" by executive types and skilled labour that do not want to deal with being trapped in their cars 3 or 4 hours a day getting to and from work. Nobody does. But that has a good side too- fewer corporate HQs here means fewer people moving here hopefully which should mean that the population growth will stabilize to a point we can try to manage it. If we don't have water and freeways or subways for 5 million people, where are we going to find it for 10 million which is what we will have in about 20 years with current growth rates. We can either put the brakes on growth or pay for more freeways, subways, schools and find more water from somewhere. Those are the choices we face here.

[gt6974a]

yeah, I saw that....while I understand the concerns.....I don't totally buy the premise.....

Companies move for tax relief and applicant pool. Atlanta is one of the 'youngest' as far as workers, but I don't think they do much in tax relief. However, other parts of Georgia do, i.e Kia plant

You also have your outlining Atlanta communities that companies have been moving to, for a while, to escape the traffic, office space costs, and/or tax relief.....Alpharetta, Marietta, Norcross, etc....

...the problem is the way the land is used. Instead of putting up office buildings and offering tax benefits to companies/developers, land is being sold to Condo developers.

For all the mass transit folks...If you took all the Condos that have been put up in/around Buckhead/Midtown and they were office buildings instead, you could make use of Marta for all those workers....

...however, people end up getting a building somewhere random around the perimeter and putting up shop. I don't care what rail/train system you have, it's still not going to be convenient.

Some other cities in Georgia(Macon, Columbus, Savannah) already have a few Fortune 500 companies located there...

[atlantagreg30127]

Interesting article.

While it's true that due to Atlanta being so spread out that there is no "one fix" transit solution, we COULD be doing MUCH better than we are by now.

MARTA was growing and expanding actually beyond what most cities of our size had back in the early to late 80s. If that trend had continued, then people in Lawrenceville, Alpharetta, Stone Mountain, and Marietta even would today be able to park at a rail station and come into the city. If leaders had been more forward thinking, then people in Athens, Macon, and Cartersville would be able to catch commuter rail into town today as well. A light rail and/or trolly system would *already* be serving the inner city neighborhoods.

Unfortunately, due to a complete lack of cooperation between county and city leaders, and a total lack of brains in the Governor's chair, here we are today... the "L.A. of the East". But - it doesn't stop there! We're still getting worse. Where will we be in 5 years? 10? 20? L.A.'s roadways will actually look GOOD compared to us by then.

Yes, we need more access roads, connector roads, and in some areas, additional lanes in existing roads. We need more HOV lanes, and need to separate the existing ones with barriers. Roads are not evil - we DO need more of them, and better planned roads as well - they're just not the only solution.

The one phrase in that article that rang true however, is when he said Atlanta was, "at a point of no return". I'm afraid that may be true. Even if we DID get an intelligent person running the state, and even if we DID have cooperation between area leaders, and even if we DID have them go full speed ahead with transit projects, I'm not sure even then at this point, that would be enough. Atlanta may just continue as it is. Growing unchecked and uncontrolled. Then, one day, it will stop and backfire. It will be as undesireable of a place to live as it is in demand today. We will become what Detroit is today... a dried-up shell of a city with closing businesses, tens of thousands of empty unsold homes, and a skyrocketing unemployment rate.

"Welcome to Atlanta. America's next Detroit!".

[meadgrad]

Originally Posted by atlantagreg30127

Interesting article.

While it's true that due to Atlanta being so spread out that there is no "one fix" transit solution, we COULD be doing MUCH better than we are by now.

MARTA was growing and expanding actually beyond what most cities of our size had back in the early to late 80s. If that trend had continued, then people in Lawrenceville, Alpharetta, Stone Mountain, and Marietta even would today be able to park at a rail station and come into the city. If leaders had been more forward thinking, then people in Athens, Macon, and Cartersville would be able to catch commuter rail into town today as well. A light rail and/or trolly system would *already* be serving the inner city neighborhoods.

Unfortunately, due to a complete lack of cooperation between county and city leaders, and a total lack of brains in the Governor's chair, here we are today... the "L.A. of the East". But - it doesn't stop there! We're still getting worse. Where will we be in 5 years? 10? 20? L.A.'s roadways will actually look GOOD compared to us by then.

Yes, we need more access roads, connector roads, and in some areas, additional lanes in existing roads. We need more HOV lanes, and need to separate the existing ones with barriers. Roads are not evil - we DO need more of them, and better planned roads as well - they're just not the only solution.

The one phrase in that article that rang true however, is when he said Atlanta was, "at a point of no return". I'm afraid that may be true. Even if we DID get an intelligent person running the state, and even if we DID have cooperation between area leaders, and even if we DID have them go full speed ahead with transit projects, I'm not sure even then at this point, that would be enough. Atlanta may just continue as it is. Growing unchecked and uncontrolled. Then, one day, it will stop and backfire. It will be as undesireable of a place to live as it is in demand today. We will become what Detroit is today... a dried-up shell of a city with closing businesses, tens of thousands of empty unsold homes, and a skyrocketing unemployment rate.

"Welcome to Atlanta. America's next Detroit!".

well put.

Atlanta would be VERY lucky to have the street layout of Detroit. If Detroit had transit...it would really be like Chicago.

intersting article though...

[KevK]

Things I would do:

1.Expand MARTA rail east to Conyers, west to Douglasville, Northwest to Kennesaw/ Acworth, northeast to Lawerenceville, north to Cumming and south to Fayette. Build large park and ride lots at each suburban stop.

2.Expand I-285 to 7 lanes each way making 3 of the lanes limited access express only lanes with exits only on at I-75, GA 400, I-85 and I-20 and reserving the other 4 lanes for local traffic (perhaps adding an upper road deck for the express lanes).

3. Ban ALL delivery standing (blocking the lanes of streets making deliveries) and ALL trucks with 6 axles or more from entering the inside of the Perimeter between the hours of 7 to 9 AM and 4 to 6 PM Mon-Fri.

4. Require that all non emegency work on major surface streets be perfomed only between the hours of 7PM and 6AM. This includes road work, sewer work, water, telephone and anything else that is not an emergency.

These 4 things alone would do alot to untie traffic here. They could easily be paid for by a 10 cent a gallon gasoline tax that could also fund projects in other parts of the state as well.

[Vampgrrl]

Best thing that can happen to Atlanta is gas prices continue to rise until the anti transit crowd's hand is forced into going ahead with rail and train systems.

[nopardaid]

Originally Posted by Vampgrrl

Best thing that can happen to Atlanta is gas prices continue to rise until the anti transit crowd's hand is forced into going ahead with rail and train systems.

Why the hell would someone be anti-transit? I pray every day for a transit system to west Cobb.

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by meadgrad

well put.

Atlanta would be VERY lucky to have the street layout of Detroit. If Detroit had transit...it would really be like Chicago.

intersting article though...

Going back 150 years or so...

Savannah, not Atlanta, was "planned" to be Georgia's version of New York city. It was a thriving port city and was purposely laid out in a "grid" system. All the streets were in straight lines, with small parks every few blocks. It really was supposed to be Georgia's big city.

Atlanta was nothing more than a train terminal area. A place where rail lines met, and where things were transferred from one to another to continue on a journey elsewhere. Some warehouses and storage facilities, and that was it. Hence at one time it's name "Terminus".

Well, for whatever reason we'll never know, Atlanta started to grow, and Savannah remained a relatively smaller city. Atlanta would grow... and grow... and grow. As it grew, the planners (or lack of) and leaders here did nothing more than haphazardly add roads "as needed", and allowed them to go every which way with no rhyme or reason to their design. Not one of them thought ahead to the future - to what Atlanta MIGHT become, and try to organize the mess they were laying the groundwork for. Atlanta then continued to grow, and leader after leader never fixed the mistakes of the previous one, and just kept doing the same thing. So this is why today, Savannah has that nice grid system, and our road maps looks like someone took a handful of spaghetti noodles, threw them on a board and went, "There ya go, bubba - our streets!!".

No way to fix it now, of course.

[Vampgrrl]

People who don't want MARTA coming into their communities for fear of black people using it to get into their neighborhoods are anti transit.
The governor has not backed the Athens-Atlanta transit rail either...the political will isn't there.
The rest of GA wants to keep money away from Atlanta, and transit between the counties is pretty balkanized already.