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Old 12-27-2011, 05:47 PM
 
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 3,459,528 times
Reputation: 3479
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
But they already can. The whole point of this is forcing people who don't want that on their car to pay more.


testa

You still have the right to get a plate without In God We Trust on it.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:49 PM
 
Location: Destrehan, Louisiana
2,192 posts, read 3,459,528 times
Reputation: 3479
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mattie View Post
It infringes on our rights the day they say we must pay more to keep a religious motto off our cars.

Mattie I'll take you serious when you're willing to give me all your money that says In God We Trust on it.

Until then you don't have a valid argument.
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Old 12-27-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: Charlotte, NC
1,901 posts, read 1,508,226 times
Reputation: 2572
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
Freedom OF religion, not Freedom FROM religion.

Are you saying that you don't care about the religious principles on which our country was founded?

It sounds to me, that even when presented with the facts, you want to disregard them.

By the way, there is an establishment clause having to do with the free exercise of religion, and the prohibition of a state church. There is no "separation of church and state" as liberals like to contend. I challenge you to find me the location in the Constitution where the exact words, "Separation of Church and State", are found.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ....",

Troll away, it should be obvious to anyone here that you are either just another intolerant closed minded individual who clings to your guns and religions, or a really smart troll. Please take your cult of christianity elsewhere.
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Old 12-27-2011, 07:39 PM
 
14,177 posts, read 8,686,686 times
Reputation: 3343
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever View Post
However, there is law predicated on Christian law and principles, and it was founded by men of the Christian faith.
The claim that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation isn't historically accurate. While the early U.S. included some Christian ideas, it also drastically missed the boat with regard to blacks, women and Native Americans. Who can argue that treating all those folks as subhuman is somehow an expression of Christian law and principles?

But that's really a discussion for another day. These days, depending on whose figures you prefer, somewhere between 59-76% of Americans identify as Christians.

That's a lot, but it also means that between 74 million to 123 million Americans DON'T identify as Christians. Why should all these people, many of whom are hardworking, taxpaying citizens, be required by the government to not only obey Christian law, but to declare it on their licence plates?

Nobody has ever suggested that Christians don't have the right to put stickers all over the cars declaring their faith. In the U.S. folks can cover their whole car with religious stickers if they feel like it.

The problem is when one religion tries to get the government to force everyone else to go along with their views. And that's exactly what this license plate sticker is about. It's a law "respecting an establishment of religion" -- something the Founding Fathers knew was a recipe for disaster, and which they took pains to prohibit. Forcing people to go along with one religion over another, or any religion at all, is not the business of government.

Last edited by arjay57; 12-27-2011 at 08:15 PM..
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:08 PM
 
2,397 posts, read 1,959,593 times
Reputation: 1193
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
When I see comments such as SSF's, to me, it illustrates a basic lack of faith. If his faith were strong, then he wouldn't feel the need to be bombastic about it and hope that "In God We Trust" were on every license plate in the state. Christians with strong faith could be one of the very few Christians around and still keep their faith (see Daniel, St. Paul, etc.).
Typical argument of the left. They try to state that someone who is outspoken about their faith is "insecure" in their faith. That makes no sense.

I'm not saying that everyone has to have an "In God We Trust" sticker on their car. I'm saying that it's not some type of violation, as some of you are making it out to be. I'm also wondering why so many of you are anti-God.

You want to relegate Christianity to a small building, it seems. You want it to have nothing to do with the culture. Am I correct?


Quote:
Of more importance, though, is whether the sticker is constitutional. Based on the criteria laid forth in the three-pronged Lemon test, I can't see how it passes all three, particularly the first two. For those who disagree, I would like a CLEAR answer to the following question: What is the sticker's secular purpose? If there is none, then the sticker is unconstitutional.
I've gone through this multiple times.

Where is the basis for unconstitutionality? Oh yeah, the fabled "separation of church and state" which DOES NOT EXIST.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:13 PM
 
2,397 posts, read 1,959,593 times
Reputation: 1193
Quote:
Originally Posted by topchief1 View Post
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ....",

Troll away, it should be obvious to anyone here that you are either just another intolerant closed minded individual who clings to your guns and religions, or a really smart troll. Please take your cult of christianity elsewhere.
If that were true, then how is it that congress had prayer on the floor of congress?

If that were true, then how is it that Jesus name was spoken on the floor of congress?

If that were true, then how come our documents refer to the Creator?

If that were true, then how is it that our founding fathers comments stand in stark contrast to what you're saying?

By the way, here is what Jesus said:


"If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first
"

John 15:18
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:17 PM
 
2,397 posts, read 1,959,593 times
Reputation: 1193
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
The claim that the U.S. was founded as a Christian nation isn't historically accurate. While the early U.S. included some Christian ideas, it also drastically missed the boat with regard to blacks, women and Native Americans. Who can argue that treating all those folks as subhuman is somehow an expression of Christian law and principles?

But that's really a discussion for another day. These days, depending on whose figures you prefer, somewhere between 59-76% of Americans identify as Christians.

That's a lot, but it also means that between 74 million to 123 million Americans DON'T identify as Christians. Why should all these people, many of whom are hardworking, taxpaying citizens, be required by the government to not only obey Christian law, but to declare it on their licence plates?

Nobody has ever suggested that Christians don't have the right to put stickers all over the cars declaring their faith. In the U.S. folks can cover their whole car with religious stickers if they feel like it.

The problem is when one religion tries to get the government to force everyone else to go along with their views. And that's exactly what this license plate sticker is about. It's a law "respecting an establishment of religion" -- something the Founding Fathers knew was a recipe for disaster, and which they took pains to prohibit.
Then all of U.S. Law is "respecting an establishment of religion" by your criteria. It really comes down to be against the establishment of a STATE CHURCH, one in which people had to pay a TAX to. That's what the founding father's meant by those words.

It also states, or prohibiting the free exercise, thereof.

By the way, no one is forcing you to get an "In God We Trust" sticker. You have the option not to. Even then, this hasn't even passed the floors of the General Assembly, so we'll see how it turns out.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:19 PM
 
Location: San Antonio, Texas
3,173 posts, read 2,890,474 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Here we go again. Another case of the religious trying to push their religious beliefs down everyone's throats. I'm not sure what part of the US Constitution is unclear to these people, and even if you can successfully argue that it's allowed, as somehow has been done for money....why is it necessary?

This is the part of living in the south that I find pretty distasteful. Not that you never find this kind of crap in other places, but it's predominantly found in the bible belt, where people can't help but wear their religion on their sleeves and shove it down your throat for good measure. I too would cover it up or place something else over it. Let them give me a ticket...I'd just love to be the test case.
Out of curiosity...under what grounds would the revenue generators give you a ticket? "License Plate Obscured" or some BS cite of that nature? Even though the state AND license number were fully visible?
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:21 PM
 
1,003 posts, read 1,102,222 times
Reputation: 537
So does this mean that there will be alternative decals available for purchase? Pro Choice, Pro Gay Rights, Pro Socialism, et al?

I don't see it as a violation as much as a pointless issue when our state is facing so many greater issues than what decal is the default option on a license plate. We're losing jobs to other states, our housing prices have cratered worse than even the biggest speculator states and this is the only topic they can keep rehashing?

On another note, can we take Sen Heath's salary to pay for this change? Given the millions of vehicles, multiple websites, forms, and dozens of DMV locations it's likely this change will cost well into the six figures. Add in a bit of debate to get it into place and we've likely wasted hundreds of thousands to make our state look even less tolerant of non-Christians.
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Old 12-27-2011, 08:30 PM
 
1,003 posts, read 1,102,222 times
Reputation: 537
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soviet View Post
Out of curiosity...under what grounds would the revenue generators give you a ticket? "License Plate Obscured" or some BS cite of that nature? Even though the state AND license number were fully visible?
I've been pulled over for having my county sticker partially obscured by a license plate frame (the registration was visible). Didn't get a ticket but he made me tear the frame off. Dekalb officer on Ponce near Decatur.
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