Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
There are indeed swaths of the city that are more or less flattened. Atlanta does not have this.
A major difference between Detroit and Atlanta is that Atlanta has only a fraction of the grand, historic architecture Detroit has. There simply aren't many/any grand old theaters and hotels that are still standing and abandoned. Indeed, most of our older, empty buildings are the subject of regular media attention for redevelopment (Medical Arts Building, City Hall East, Southern RR HQ, etc). We have also had numerous large-scale refurbishments of old buildings (Georgian Terrace, Biltmore, countless warehouses, etc).
In short, you're going to have a tough time getting pictures showing the same sorts of things in that state of decay within Atlanta. However, you'll be able to show some rather serious decay of older bungalows if you look in the right neighborhoods. But my understanding is that abandoned bungalows, storefronts, and older low and midrise buildings are a dime a dozen in Detroit (although I haven't spent huge amounts of time there).
Here's my question: Do you think you could make Atlanta look just as bad by carefully selecting which sites to photograph?
At first I thought it was much worse in Detroit because they actually had to close their zoo and aquarium. Then I did some research and saw that Detroit does have a zoo (don't know if at one point they had two, or if they relocated the old one to a new area) and the aquarium seemed fairly minor anyway.
So I don't know because I haven't been there. Does Detroit get a bad reputation for ruin, or are the photos accurate in portraying what the city is like?
Well suuuure you could make Atlanta look just as bad by taking a few selective shots and squinting your eyes. You could also do that in New York City to Milan to San Francisco to Paris in the richest neighborhoods of the most well off and celebrated cities. Blight and rundown properties is normal thing in urban environments.
What isn't normal?
Nearly a thread of Detroit is abandoned. I'm not just talking there is a house and no one lives in it or a few houses one of the block is vacant. There are 10s of thousands of abandoned and largely forgotten residential and commercial properties in Detroit, and in some sections blocks after block stand in ruin. Granted, the City of Atlanta has places with lots of blight such as the Bluff or Pittsburgh or the former industrial areas on the Southeast side, but it in no way comparable to abandonment of Detroit. Especially considering that Detroit and Atlanta are physically about the same size yet Detroit once had almost 1.5 million more people than it currently does. It would be if the entire population of Philadelphia just upped and left and didn't return for several decades.
Now, I don't want to come off as a Detroit basher. I've always had an love affair with Detroit and my hope is that they can get things sorted out there. I also have a large amount of respect of Mayor Bing and his plans, but there is absolutely nothing comparable to this in Atlanta in any significant way in any neighborhood:
The reason why there are not large areas of the city flattened here in Atlanta is because they just leave the abandoned houses to rot. If you bulldoze all the continuously neglected properties in Atlanta, it would look very similar to Detroit.
I know a lot of you really don't think so but it is the truth. Atlanta is almost as bad as Detroit in the blight department (Atlanta rated #3 after LV and Detroit in 2009 for the most blighted cities in the country). Yet Detroit consistently has one of the highest rated downtown's in the nation. Something that Atlanta lacks. They have focal points and architecture that Atlanta lacks.
Also wanted to point out that I do like Atlanta better than Detroit, I have nothing against Atlanta at all.
Also in regards to me not travelling outside of a 5 mile radius, that is because I don't like to waste gas by driving so I chose to live close to my work, my kids schools and decent shopping. I also don't want to contribute to air pollution. I have lived all over the metro both ITP and OTP and I know a lot about both the good and bad neighborhoods in this area, just like I know quite a bit about the neighborhoods in Detroit. Many of you show that you have not travelled to the more blighted areas of Atlanta if you don't know that there are whole blocks in Atlanta where every house is abandoned. In Detroit all those houses would be torn down and the grass mowed and if that were to happen here in Atlanta, this city would have large swaths that would look like the pictures above of Detroit.
I even remember reading an article that said that 50% of the homes south of downtown are vacant in Atlanta a while ago.
The reason why there are not large areas of the city flattened here in Atlanta is because they just leave the abandoned houses to rot. If you bulldoze all the continuously neglected properties in Atlanta, it would look very similar to Detroit.
I know a lot of you really don't think so but it is the truth. Atlanta is almost as bad as Detroit in the blight department (Atlanta rated #3 after LV and Detroit in 2009 for the most blighted cities in the country). Yet Detroit consistently has one of the highest rated downtown's in the nation. Something that Atlanta lacks. They have focal points and architecture that Atlanta lacks.
Also wanted to point out that I do like Atlanta better than Detroit, I have nothing against Atlanta at all.
Also in regards to me not travelling outside of a 5 mile radius, that is because I don't like to waste gas by driving so I chose to live close to my work, my kids schools and decent shopping. I also don't want to contribute to air pollution. I have lived all over the metro both ITP and OTP and I know a lot about both the good and bad neighborhoods in this area, just like I know quite a bit about the neighborhoods in Detroit. Many of you show that you have not travelled to the more blighted areas of Atlanta if you don't know that there are whole blocks in Atlanta where every house is abandoned. In Detroit all those houses would be torn down and the grass mowed and if that were to happen here in Atlanta, this city would have large swaths that would look like the pictures above of Detroit.
I even remember reading an article that said that 50% of the homes south of downtown are vacant in Atlanta a while ago.
Note how much more of the darker shades are on the Detroit map. Keep in mind that the destroyed houses are NOT counted as vacant.
There are only one or two census tracts in the Atlanta metro with vacancy rates >50%. Neighborhoods like Pittsburgh and Mechanicsville range from 10-30% vacancy rates. So the thesis that "Atlanta is just like Detroit except they tear houses down" has no basis.
Change in population between 2000 and 2010 is even more instructive. Only a handful of census tracts in Detroit didn't lose population.
I don't know where CL got that statistic but it appears not to have been the census.
So Atlanta is not consistently rated in the top 5 for blight?
Atlanta doesn't have large areas of vacant homes?
Atlanta does have a downtown with the architecture and natural beauty that Detroit has?
I am not arguing with you that Detroit's blight problem is not worse than Atlanta.
All I am saying is that Atlanta has it's share of blight and abandoned homes. It also lacks the focal point that Detroit has (someone else brought Detroit into the mix earlier in the thread). If you cannot admit all of the above that is fine, people can have their own views on things and most people who have a set view don't change it, especially when it concerns a place or thing they admire.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,469 posts, read 14,922,050 times
Reputation: 7263
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
The reason why there are not large areas of the city flattened here in Atlanta is because they just leave the abandoned houses to rot. If you bulldoze all the continuously neglected properties in Atlanta, it would look very similar to Detroit.
Please point out what neighborhood has a 100% vancany rate. No such thing exists in the City of Atlanta. The only thing close would be former sites of public housing projects and that's only a temporary situation since the city is in the process of building new housing there over the next decade.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
I know a lot of you really don't think so but it is the truth. Atlanta is almost as bad as Detroit in the blight department (Atlanta rated #3 after LV and Detroit in 2009 for the most blighted cities in the country). Yet Detroit consistently has one of the highest rated downtown's in the nation. Something that Atlanta lacks. They have focal points and architecture that Atlanta lacks.
It should be noted that the metric you keep referencing was a Forbes (really bad) analysis of Census data for rental and SFH vacancy rates for metropolitan areas. This is a key thing to point out because you are relating that to the city level which that story does not do and also because there are very different circumstances that led to Forbes ranking them (incorrectly) the way they did.
First, when you look at it at a metropolitan level, Detroit and Atlanta are a world apart. Detroit's suburbs are much older than Atlanta's and far more established. All of the blight and destruction that has become synonymous with the City of the Detroit is almost completely untrue in Suburban Detroit which has a stable, middle class, population for decades now.
This means that with this recession they have not been affected as much as Atlanta has as there was really no new sprawl to speak of in Detroit. In contrast, there are very large swaths of suburban Atlanta counties that were (over)developed with thousands of new homes that no one moved in to. In other words, the majority of the vacant properties the Forbes articles talks about isn't even in the city of Atlanta (my bet is that is probably less than 2% overall), but rather a combined total of all 20 counties in Metropolitan Atlanta.
So, no, it is not even close to being comparable since what led the city of Detroit to become vacant (the depopulation of 1.5 million people over 40 years) is not the same reason Forbes ranked Atlanta higher (largely new construction not being absorbed) on the abandoned list.
To state otherwise is academically disingenuous.
As for Downtown Detroit, maybe 50 years ago it was better than Downtown Atlanta but I can not think of a single way it is today.
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007
Many of you show that you have not travelled to the more blighted areas of Atlanta if you don't know that there are whole blocks in Atlanta where every house is abandoned. In Detroit all those houses would be torn down and the grass mowed and if that were to happen here in Atlanta, this city would have large swaths that would look like the pictures above of Detroit.
For the record I grew up in Southwest Atlanta/East Point and went to school at the AUC. I know all about blight and the neighborhoods most effected by it. Hell, I've lived in them.
So Atlanta is not consistently rated in the top 5 for blight?
I missed where you actually cited the blight rating, but I usually find those types of magazine ratings of cities pretty inane, regardless of how they rate Atlanta. For one, the terms "vacant" and "blighted" are not synonymous; by that definition of blighted, 1010 Midtown would have been considered extreme blight, when it is in fact an upscale condo that is steadily filling up.
Quote:
Atlanta doesn't have large areas of vacant homes?
I showed a map showing exactly what the vacancy situation is. If all of the vacant houses were torn down, you'd still not have anything that looks like Detroit, where literally entire city blocks are 90% empty. Atlanta's vacancy rates top out around 50%, per the census.
Quote:
Atlanta does have a downtown with the architecture and natural beauty that Detroit has?
I already stated that Atlanta has only a fraction of the grand historic architecture Detroit has. Of course, I take very serious issue with the idea that Detroit's downtown is rated one of the top in the country regularly, which is what you actually said; it's population density is way, way below cities like Boston, NYC, SF, Philly, Chicago, etc. Like, a small fraction thereof. Ditto Atlanta, which can't compete with those cities either.
Quote:
I am not arguing with you that Detroit's blight problem is not worse than Atlanta.
All I am saying is that Atlanta has it's share of blight and abandoned homes. It also lacks the focal point that Detroit has (someone else brought Detroit into the mix earlier in the thread). If you cannot admit all of the above that is fine, people can have their own views on things and most people who have a set view don't change it, especially when it concerns a place or thing they admire.
'All of the above' happens to be the least controversial stuff in your post--the things people would be least likely to disagree with.
As for Downtown Detroit, maybe 50 years ago it was better than Downtown Atlanta but I can not think of a single way it is today.
Agree with your post, but Detroit really does have incredible architecture; it's certainly top-tier in that regard. It's extremely sad that so much of it is rotting; Atlanta would kill to have those buildings.
Agree with your post, but Detroit really does have incredible architecture; it's certainly top-tier in that regard. It's extremely sad that so much of it is rotting; Atlanta would kill to have those buildings.
I think Detroit's old railway station is outside of downtown. It's now a rotting hulk. If it were possible, I'd like to move it to the gulch to anchor the planned multi-modal station.
They just don't make buildings like this anymore. I think Atlanta had two classic railway stations downtown but both were torn down. They weren't as impressive as this though.
downtown detroit ain't all that. it's lacking in vibrancy and office space - charlotte's downtown is almost as big. as ugly as downtown atlanta is in many ways, it serves more roles than downtown detroit - with a research university and the state government complex on one end, and major tourist attractions on the other. the only bumps i'd give detroit are for its great historic architecture and the detroit river - oh and campus martius, which is what woodruff park should be like. they don't have anything like our midtown either.
i lived in lafayette park for a year and brush park for two, and moved back just a few years ago.
Last edited by cabasse; 01-24-2012 at 03:51 PM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
