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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
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Originally Posted by ATLTJL
I sure hope the above attitude that we're doing well enough isn't echoed by a lot of people...but I think it is.
Sad. Even if you think we are doing well, there's always room for improvement.
I don't think there isn't room for improvement. I just disagree that Atlanta presents an hostile environment for conventions/conventioneers. Sure Downtown could use a lot more organic restaurants and non-tourist oriented places (even though that's the sort of thing a mega convention area breeds), but the "Atlanta world" doesn't just revolve around what Downtown is like. It's not as if it is difficult to travel north to Midtown, head to the Westside, or go on a jaunt up to Buckhead. Thankfully we're lucky enough to have a lot of great places and things to do in this city to keep one busy.
Eventually I think Downtown will live up to everything it should be, and frankly I think we're in the midst of that now.
I sure hope the above attitude that we're doing well enough isn't echoed by a lot of people...but I think it is.
Sad. Even if you think we are doing well, there's always room for improvement.
It's possible to think we are doing well and there is lots of room for improvement.
I'm the first to criticize Atlanta for lots of stuff (having a relatively shabby downtown is one of them), but I can recognize improvement when it is there. I just hope to see more of the same in the future.
Check out a circa 1998 aerial of the GWCC. Besides the convention center being half the size it is now, lots and lots of the nearby amenities that are there now weren't there. Philips Arena didn't exist. The hotels and restaurants along Marietta didn't exist. The Glenn didn't exist.
The area has a ridiculous amount of room for improvement, but it's already leaps and bounds ahead of where it was in the mid-90s, when the fact that it was recently a rough neighborhood before COP was developed still showed through to a large degree.
It is, what it is......i've been working on meeting with the GWCC to speak about their improvements in marketing. I can't go into much detail but, suffice it to say it has been hard to gain an audience. Despite that, Orlando and Las Vegas are far and away the premium venues for conventions.
They both enjoy excellent logistics, vibrant entertainment close by and roughly the same costs. Their airports are cleaner and exponentially easier to deal with. Getting in and out was easier. Availability of flights was equal and arrival and departures were on time. No schlep from the back 40 (read terminal E) to the main concourse.
Case in point, our company just completed their annual kickoff in Orlando. We stayed at the Peabody and enjoyed impeccable, friendly service with multitudes of shopping and restaurants and all that crap that people want, on a free trolley, in excellent weather. The area is cleaner and appears to be lower in crime. The hotel has better convention facilities than any hotel of a similar nature anywhere in Atlanta. Period. No grubby refurbs next to near tear downs. 3 miles of spotless in any direction.
When competing for convention dollars, we really needto step our game up. Our downtown simply does not have enough venue to draw the repetitive convention business. When you compare it to the convention facilities of Orlando and Las Vegas there simply is no comparison.
We can and do need to do better. We need to find a better marketing team over there with fresh concept, overflowing conventioneer amenities, improved attitudes from the help, and a hand holding experience that would make a grandmother proud. Whatever we lack in amenity must be made up for in service. Service until it hurts. 24x7 during their entire stay. We will never, ever have the facilities they have. Service and amenity is our only hope in order to compete.
Today, they get about the same treatment as a trip to the DMV. From the moment they arrive and get hustled for cab/car rides to the lukewarm hotel hospitality to the somewhat dangerous downtown.....we can do better.
If it were your company and you were going to spend 2-3 million on a kickoff, where would you spend it if given the choice? Vegas? Orlando? Or, Atlanta? We spent it in Orlando. Money well spent if you have to spend it at all...
But you've got to admit that Orlando and Las Vegas are very tourist oriented and are naturally hungrier to please their visitors than Atlanta. Tourism truly is their raison d'être. We don't have the same sense of dependance on the tourist business.
I don't think there isn't room for improvement. I just disagree that Atlanta presents an hostile environment for conventions/conventioneers. Sure Downtown could use a lot more organic restaurants and non-tourist oriented places (even though that's the sort of thing a mega convention area breeds), but the "Atlanta world" doesn't just revolve around what Downtown is like.
To me it's more about balance than anything else. What downtown seems to lack, compared to other convention destinations, is a good mix of restaurant and entertainment options. I don't think that means 100% organic cafes; it just means a more diverse mix of local, Atlanta-specific spots AND the more national, touristy sorts of things you'd see in any city.
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It's not as if it is difficult to travel north to Midtown, head to the Westside, or go on a jaunt up to Buckhead. Thankfully we're lucky enough to have a lot of great places and things to do in this city to keep one busy.
While I agree completely, all of my convention-attending friends have told me they had no idea where to go to find all the cool stuff without having me guide them there. To an extent, I'm sure that's true anywhere: a resident knows the ins and outs better than a visitor. But this may go back to the hospitality issue mentioned by Caleb earlier. I had one set of friends who had been directed to check out Buckhead for some cool spots to eat and drink. They used Marta, exited at one of Buckhead spots, and walked around aimlessly for a while until they desperately decided on some fratty bar (that I had to later save them from). We then did VaHi and Westside, where they had a blast.
While I understand MARTA buses go to VaHi and Westside, it's not all that easy to navigate. Some of our best neighborhoods aren't anywhere near a MARTA rail stop, unfortunately.
I'm not sure what the city needs to do to make the city more convention/tourist friendly. I'm sure some of these neighborhoods have probably benefited from the lack of tourist accessibility. But I don't think our signage and transit and downtown amenities are as up to par as they need to be.
But you've got to admit that Orlando and Las Vegas are very tourist oriented and are naturally hungrier to please their visitors than Atlanta. Tourism truly is their raison d'être. We don't have the same sense of dependance on the tourist business.
In light of how well the economy is, perhaps we should? Tourists don't show up in conventions. Business people do. Despite it being "in season" it was packed to the rafters with business types. Most tourists stay at less tonier places. After all, it's on their nickel. Following that logic, maybe we should move our convention facilities further out?
Tourism is not the reason, attitudes are. These two cities simply get it. They planned and compiled, successfully, a set of convention assets second to none. We can do it, it just takes some planning and vision. Maybe a casino wouldn't be such a bad idea after all? Anything to attract more convention and tourist dollars.
Caleb, you hit on all the major points, and said it better than I ever could, especially this:
Quote:
The area is cleaner and appears to be lower in crime.
People on here will find crime statistics and prove that crime isn't that bad. Maybe it's not, but guess what? It doesn't matter. Downtown Atlanta *FEELS* dangerous, and that's all that matters. You should be able to conduct business in a convention area without anyone approaching you for money. Period. It's that simple.
Even downtown LA, as grubby as it is, has homeless people everywhere....but they quietly hold out cups and you can give to them or ignore them, it's up to you. Panhandlers in Atlanta approach you, have some sob story, and sometimes follow you around for a while. It's completely unacceptabe. Before we can fix anything else, we absolutely have got to get that under control or nothing else matters.
You really hit on something with the entertainment district in Orlando. It's huge and has tons of stuff for tourists to do. Of course it's manufactured. Of course it's devoid of culture. Of course nobody who actually lives in Orlando would think of partying there. But who cares? All that matters is it is a safe and convenient place for visitors to go. They're not looking to find the great cultural centers of central Florida, they're looking to get a good buzz on, have a meal that is at least reliable, have a little bit of fun, and have an environment to mingle with other visitors to the city. That's all.
Atlanta has a real problem because we really don't have hospitalitly down. I don't think our service industry workers have what it takes to create a hospitable environment. It's not like Orlando where you have a bunch of cheap, but somewhat decent places to live around the tourism area. The area also has a draw, so there is a steady supply of fairly decent young people who are just working crappy jobs for a while until they figure out what they really want to do. Nobody is going to hold "I worked at the Ponderosa steakhouse on International Drive for a year to find myself, it was fun" against someone on their resume. Now think about downtown Atlanta. Think about who lives around there. Not exactly who you want as ambassadors to visitors. The trouble is, there are really not many decent young people living around downtown Atlanta to staff a tourism center. You can't expect people to commute downtown from other areas for $8 an hour jobs. I don't think we have enough decent service industry workers. We will end up like New Orleans, where you might go anyway because the city is so unique, but it most definitely does not have good service.
When you talk to the GWCC, I know exactly what they are going to tell you. They are going to say "we know we can't compete with Las Vegas, Orlando, Chicago, or New York. We don't even try. We consider New Orleans and Nashville our main competitors." Well, it's smart to do that. There's no reason trying to attract another E3 until we are ready. Why bother alienating ourselves from another show that will never come back no matter how good we become some day? However, maybe that should be the goal....not how do we compete with New Orleans and Nashville, but how do we get to where we could viably compete with Orlando? We can do it, it's just that nobody is being creative or thinking outside of the box.
Caleb, you hit on all the major points, and said it better than I ever could, especially this:
People on here will find crime statistics and prove that crime isn't that bad. Maybe it's not, but guess what? It doesn't matter. Downtown Atlanta *FEELS* dangerous, and that's all that matters. You should be able to conduct business in a convention area without anyone approaching you for money. Period. It's that simple.
Even downtown LA, as grubby as it is, has homeless people everywhere....but they quietly hold out cups and you can give to them or ignore them, it's up to you. Panhandlers in Atlanta approach you, have some sob story, and sometimes follow you around for a while. It's completely unacceptabe. Before we can fix anything else, we absolutely have got to get that under control or nothing else matters.
You really hit on something with the entertainment district in Orlando. It's huge and has tons of stuff for tourists to do. Of course it's manufactured. Of course it's devoid of culture. Of course nobody who actually lives in Orlando would think of partying there. But who cares? All that matters is it is a safe and convenient place for visitors to go. They're not looking to find the great cultural centers of central Florida, they're looking to get a good buzz on, have a meal that is at least reliable, have a little bit of fun, and have an environment to mingle with other visitors to the city. That's all.
Atlanta has a real problem because we really don't have hospitalitly down. I don't think our service industry workers have what it takes to create a hospitable environment. It's not like Orlando where you have a bunch of cheap, but somewhat decent places to live around the tourism area. The area also has a draw, so there is a steady supply of fairly decent young people who are just working crappy jobs for a while until they figure out what they really want to do. Nobody is going to hold "I worked at the Ponderosa steakhouse on International Drive for a year to find myself, it was fun" against someone on their resume. Now think about downtown Atlanta. Think about who lives around there. Not exactly who you want as ambassadors to visitors. The trouble is, there are really not many decent young people living around downtown Atlanta to staff a tourism center. You can't expect people to commute downtown from other areas for $8 an hour jobs. I don't think we have enough decent service industry workers. We will end up like New Orleans, where you might go anyway because the city is so unique, but it most definitely does not have good service.
When you talk to the GWCC, I know exactly what they are going to tell you. They are going to say "we know we can't compete with Las Vegas, Orlando, Chicago, or New York. We don't even try. We consider New Orleans and Nashville our main competitors." Well, it's smart to do that. There's no reason trying to attract another E3 until we are ready. Why bother alienating ourselves from another show that will never come back no matter how good we become some day? However, maybe that should be the goal....not how do we compete with New Orleans and Nashville, but how do we get to where we could viably compete with Orlando? We can do it, it's just that nobody is being creative or thinking outside of the box.
Perceptions ARE realities and the perception of downtown Atlanta is one that evokes crime, real or imagined, run-down, not-so-hospitable and just plain dull....there's just not that much but a hodge podge of buildings with a few accented works (191 Ptree, etc..etc..), the hotels are dated despite the fact we throw a few and rennovate for a few in regular fashion....parking is typical, not great, not that bad....there's just nothing that is exceptional....very downtown feel to it with a real worn-out flavor...contrast that to the Orlando's and Las Vegas venues and it's night and day.
There's really no reason we couldn't draw more and converting the dome won't be enough...the entire environment has to change. Not just inject a few new buildings amongst the worn down...not enough.....take one spin towards the Peabody in Orlando, take the trolly in either direction and you tell me, where would you spend your convention dollars???
I know more about reactions to the academic convention side of things, and the primary complaints I hear from friends visiting the ATL are the following:
(1) Ultra-aggressive panhandling
(2) Lack of local "scene," including restaurants, around the downtown hotels
A couple of my friends were flabbergasted when they saw how supercool the Westside is, and they wondered why there couldn't be more distinct restaurants and bars, and much less Hooters and such, in the downtown area.
I was recently at a conference in Seattle's downtown, and it's SO much better than our downtown area IMO. Way more fun "oh, what a cool fusion cafe!" sorts of finds, more pedestrian friendliness, better signage, etc.
I'm sure our downtown is better than it has been in the past, but I agree that we need to step things up if we want to compete with the big boys.
Downtown does kinda suck compared to other cities, but as far as panhandlers go, they know who to mess with and who not to. If you walk around like you have a sense of purpose they wont bother you. But walk around looking scared and they will be all over you. I've been walking downtown my entire life and I have never once had a problem. If more people here had at least an ounce of street smarts you wouldn't see half the robberies and jackings that you do. People here really make it easy for a criminal to take advantage of them.
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