Raising Infrastructure Money (Atlanta, Douglas, Dawson: mover, house, taxes)

[Nanosolar]

Hi Folks

I was just curious if there has ever been a discussion about a fee on cars that commute from outside the city of Atlanta (Gwinnett, Cobb, etc.) for coming into the city and using its infrastructure. Personally, I grew up in the burbs and would've been opposed to this, but now that I live in the city I can see its utility --- but I'm still on the fence.

It would only be in force M-F during rush hour times and the fee would be something like a fraction of a penny for commuting into the city. The logistics of it all would be difficult to work out... it would have to be something like a "peach pass" sticker. A toll similar to the one on 400 would not make sense. Also, I'm not sure how it would work with people coming into the city on surface streets or for people that live outside the metro-Atlanta area and do not have the proposed "peach pass."

The proceeds from this could be split 50% to improve existing streets and roads and 50% to build new mass transportation infrastructure. Possibly, the proceeds could also be kicked back to the originating counties based on the number of commuters from that county.

[lorilove]

I think if individuals believe they are being nickle and dimed in taxes, they would just find a reason to not go into the city.

The city limits of Atlanta is not a large area, there are lots of activities outside of the city. Business would find a way to locate just outside of the city limits.

[testa50]

A fraction of a penny fee would not even cover costs to collect. Plus, even if it were free to collect, it wouldn't raise much. Say 200,000 commuters come into the city every day: that's $2,000/day, or $700k/year. A drop in the bucket in the DOT world, which manages a budget in the hundreds of millions.

That's not to say I oppose a more significant fee.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Nanosolar

I was just curious if there has ever been a discussion about a fee on cars that commute from outside the city of Atlanta (Gwinnett, Cobb, etc.) for coming into the city and using its infrastructure. Personally, I grew up in the burbs and would've been opposed to this, but now that I live in the city I can see its utility --- but I'm still on the fence.

Something like that might make sense if we were a centralized city where huge numbers of workers had to commute into the central city. Here, however, most jobs are outside the city proper. Most city residents commute to work somewhere outside the city and I don't think they'd take kindly to a congestion tax.

[Caleb Longstreet]

They are called fuel taxes......they pay for your roads and highways to some degree....one could certainly argue that this is the best "fair tax" option as the more you drive, the more you would pay which makes some sense in that you are probably on the roads more, polluting more, etc......if you drive less, you are already paying less?

As it relates to infrastructure improvements, the expansion of the Marta rail/light rail is probably our best hope.....I just hope they have the vision of LESS stops the further they go out and perhaps express trains as they continue to expand. That has more bang for the buck and if developed properly, could definitely ease some highway congestion.

We are a town of 5 million.....and growing....it's not realistic to think we can get to 6 million without some sort of heavy mover....just can't be done....the city never built enough highways and unless we are prepared to go through another 400 expansion/Nancy Creek nightmare, it just ain't gonna happen......too late. Can't build anymore highways....2nd perimeter could make sense but, it would only help those furhter out......no...rail and better bus routes and more of them might be the only feasible way to optimize the concrete assets in place today......

Can't make Peachtree wider, can't put in another I-75/I-85....sooooooooooo.....the sooner we get expanding, the better.....extend hubs to Dawson, Douglas, Spalding/Henry, Cherokee, Gwinnett, and perhaps Rockdale.......

Cost? Enormous....cost not to? Even greater considering lost productivity and environmental hassles.....sooner or later, everyone will get that......oh and yes, add another airport....PLEASE!!!

[BobKovacs]

As noted above, the fee would have to be significant to have any impact. If you did something like that, you'd start to see businesses moving out of Atlanta and relocating to the suburbs so their workers didn't have to pay the tax. There are already plenty of businesses that are setting up shop in the burbs, and it would only grow the numbers. Great way to see Atlanta fail....

Besides- would it not then be fair for the outer counties to tax people commuting in from Fulton or Dekalb? After all, they need money to build new roads and infrastructure too....

[testa50]

You could always put the tolls slightly outside the perimeter, rather than slightly inside. That would catch suburb-suburb commuters, suburb-city commuters, and city-suburb commuters. Unless you happen to live on the exact corridor where your job is located, the perimeter is pretty much unavoidable.

I'm not sure why there is an idea city-suburb commuters wouldn't pay this toll. They certainly would. People who work close to their house would avoid it, but that's sort of the behavior we're trying to incentivize in the first place.

Also, the whole point of a congestion tax is to penalize people for traveling at the busiest times and reward them for traveling off-peak, thereby getting closer to the theoretical capacity of our existing road infrastructure. If you can use the revenue to build additional infrastructure and boost capacity even more, it's all the better--we clearly need it.

Or we can just keep wasting away our paychecks and hours of our productive lives sitting in traffic, which is exactly what our underfunded roadway network is causing us to do.