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Old 03-06-2012, 10:05 AM
 
3,274 posts, read 2,939,470 times
Reputation: 1471
Quote:
Nah, I think Atlanta is just competitive and isn't oblivious to whats going on outside it's backyard, I'd rather have that, less you end up like Baltimore or Detroit
No, it's insecurity and at times childish (not exclusive to the Atlanta forum, a lot of this stuff happens in many of the other city forum pages). BTW, Baltimore is doing fine, outside of normal city issues.
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Old 03-06-2012, 10:43 AM
 
2,250 posts, read 1,817,622 times
Reputation: 1164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I am well aware of all the things you note about Altanta and Atlanta's historical prominence in the "Southeast". However, when I hear people living in Atlanta talk about Atlanta like it ranks with the top five population centers on America........it's hyperbolic. Atlanta is in the league with Detroit......with the only difference that makes Atlanta rank higher was a really great economy and a high commuter rate to Attlanta. To me the top 8 players are NY, LA, CHI, DC B-More, Bay Area, Philly, DFW, Bos......then its splitting hairs in regards to the next pack of 5 million club members.....depending on how one draws boundaries for counting.
I not saying Atlanta is top 5 but it's above Detroit and it's peers are the other cities you mention. And dude I said Atlanta was major city before the sunbelt boom and you came back with "historical prominence in the "Southeast"......... failed.

Really? how many foreign embassies does Detroit has? How diverse is the Detroit metro area is? How Does the Detroit area compare to Atlanta with shopping, Dinning and etc. How Does Detroit compare in numerous importance rankings vs Atlanta as to Atlanta other cities you mention. Then you trying excuse economics as if that doesn't matter a all. There's a is tire difference between Atlanta and detroit. And CSAs are not metros.

You basically ignoring everything said to you. When I say People move to the outer suburbs is Atlanta sprawling. First there was Atlanta, then the areas around that started to grow, then the areas around that started to grow, then the areas around that started to grow. See what your NOT understanding 25% of a county commute to Atlanta so far away... to still associated with Atlanta. They boom in expense to Atlanta sprawling. Your ideal is the commuter rate is base just on the economy, I'm telling you it's because sprawl. If they move closer in they won't be commuting as much. So Atlanta expand suburban rings this is not the chicken or the egg. If Atlanta didn't sprawl the 5.2 would be closer in, Atlanta would be denser. But because Atlanta did sprawl now, now we have commuting from far places.

Forsyth County was 44,083 in 1990 now it's 175,511 as of 2010. Over 25% of Forsyth County commute to Fulton. It doesn't take a rocket science to see Forsyth County growth is relation with Atlanta sprawling. People commute at the expense they're not in the city. if people from a suburb stop commuting then the city - suburb relationship is gone

If Atlanta didn't exist 175,511 people would not live out there. But if Forsyth County didn't exist they would live some where else around Atlanta or closer to Atlanta. Why?......... because it's more of Atlanta sprawl than Forsyth County growing with in itself. When people move across the country they first see Atlanta then they see the areas around Atlanta. In fact the only thing really Forsyth did was compete again't other metro counties fror Atlanta sprawl.

Again it's not the chicken or the egg you said referring to Detroit "the only difference that makes Atlanta rank higher was a really great economy and a high commuter rate to Atlanta"........ well if people didn't move that far the commuting wouldn't be so far away. The population further out would only be closer in. Again you not understand that. The lines are draws boundaries base city and suburbs. Metro sprawl different sizes so metros come out diffrent size. Detroit does not sprawl as much as Atlanta, Atlanta suppose to have a larger area because of that. The commuting is in relation to Atlanta sprawling.

Every time I post, I bring up your only measuring "density" and I never get a response for that. :

Quote:
To me....a large part of Atlanta's economy was based upon the realesate market and population growth. There was plenty of overbuilding in anticipation or speculation about future population growth, which was over 100,000 people a year to the area. This created a very high percent of jobs in construction and realestate that could only be maintained if the population kept growing at those rates and if banks kept lending at the rates they were......none of which is true now, which is why the Atlanta area economy has actually been lagging during this supposed "turnaround" and has an unemployment rate not to much better than the Detroit area. Atlanta will not boom like it did in the past because the "fluff" has been recognized as an unsustainable model.
It doesn't matter the housing industry in Atlanta has less influence on Atlanta than the manufacturing in Detroit. Where is Detroit tech, education, finance, Mass Media, Logistics, the health industry and etc. Atlanta doesn't depend on one industry.

Most jobs in Atlanta are not construction and real estate but when the crash happen it hurt other industries. hack the housing crash wasn't in Detroit but the auto industry was still hit 'case in point" Again bashing another city is not going to help Detroit. Atlanta is going to pick up but not as fast as it was. Even with slower growth Atlanta still is top 10 by raw numbers in growth. Atlanta doesn't have a unsustainable model, Atlanta bust in one industry. Detroit has as a unsustainable model it's a one hose town.
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Old 03-06-2012, 11:10 AM
 
3,986 posts, read 2,498,526 times
Reputation: 1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by chiatldal View Post
I not saying Atlanta is top 5 but it's above Detroit and it's peers are the other cities you mention. And dude I said Atlanta was major city before the sunbelt boom and you came back with "historical prominence in the "Southeast"......... failed.

Really? how many foreign embassies does Detroit has? How diverse is the Detroit metro area is? How Does the Detroit area compare to Atlanta with shopping, Dinning and etc. How Does Detroit compare in numerous importance rankings vs Atlanta as to Atlanta other cities you mention. Then you trying excuse economics as if that doesn't matter a all. There's a is tire difference between Atlanta and detroit. And CSAs are not metros.

You basically ignoring everything said to you. When I say People move to the outer suburbs is Atlanta sprawling. First there was Atlanta, then the areas around that started to grow, then the areas around that started to grow, then the areas around that started to grow. See what your NOT understanding 25% of a county commute to Atlanta so far away... to still associated with Atlanta. They boom in expense to Atlanta sprawling. Your ideal is the commuter rate is base just on the economy, I'm telling you it's because sprawl. If they move closer in they won't be commuting as much. So Atlanta expand suburban rings this is not the chicken or the egg. If Atlanta didn't sprawl the 5.2 would be closer in, Atlanta would be denser. But because Atlanta did sprawl now, now we have commuting from far places.

Forsyth County was 44,083 in 1990 now it's 175,511 as of 2010. Over 25% of Forsyth County commute to Fulton. It doesn't take a rocket science to see Forsyth County growth is relation with Atlanta sprawling. People commute at the expense they're not in the city. if people from a suburb stop commuting then the city - suburb relationship is gone

If Atlanta didn't exist 175,511 people would not live out there. But if Forsyth County didn't exist they would live some where else around Atlanta or closer to Atlanta. Why?......... because it's more of Atlanta sprawl than Forsyth County growing with in itself. When people move across the country they first see Atlanta then they see the areas around Atlanta. In fact the only thing really Forsyth did was compete again't other metro counties fror Atlanta sprawl.

Again it's not the chicken or the egg you said referring to Detroit "the only difference that makes Atlanta rank higher was a really great economy and a high commuter rate to Atlanta"........ well if people didn't move that far the commuting wouldn't be so far away. The population further out would only be closer in. Again you not understand that. The lines are draws boundaries base city and suburbs. Metro sprawl different sizes so metros come out diffrent size. Detroit does not sprawl as much as Atlanta, Atlanta suppose to have a larger area because of that. The commuting is in relation to Atlanta sprawling.

Every time I post, I bring up your only measuring "density" and I never get a response for that. :



It doesn't matter the housing industry in Atlanta has less influence on Atlanta than the manufacturing in Detroit. Where is Detroit tech, education, finance, Mass Media, Logistics, the health industry and etc. Atlanta doesn't depend on one industry.

Most jobs in Atlanta are not construction and real estate but when the crash happen it hurt other industries. hack the housing crash wasn't in Detroit but the auto industry was still hit 'case in point" Again bashing another city is not going to help Detroit. Atlanta is going to pick up but not as fast as it was. Even with slower growth Atlanta still is top 10 by raw numbers in growth. Atlanta doesn't have a unsustainable model, Atlanta bust in one industry. Detroit has as a unsustainable model it's a one hose town.
All I am saying to you is the simple FACT that if one superimposed the metro atlanta footprint over SE Michigan, that the equal sized area in Michigan would have more people than that same area that you refer to as "ATLANTA". Hence, what I am also saying is that Atlanta's population is in the league with Detroits, if not its economy or other things.......as importance is really a subjective metric. However, Detroit got bailed out because there would have been a massive ripple effect on the US economy if Detroit companies went under. Delta Airlines is based in Atlanta but I dare say that nothing exist in Atlanta worthy of a bailout. I mean.....the US airline industry is not essentially based in Atlanta, notwithstanding Delta. I mean.....if coca cola started to collapse.......there would be no massive ripple impact to the US economy....other than people not getting their sugar high. The Auto industry was bailed out because it is of vital importance to the overall US economy.

Who needs a foreign embassey when one can drive 5 minutes and be in a foreign country?

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 03-06-2012 at 11:24 AM..
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:12 PM
 
3,986 posts, read 2,498,526 times
Reputation: 1568
@ChiAtl

The way you define suburban ATL is like bedroom communities, which might be true. Someone 55 miles outside of Atlanta in a bedroom community has to commute to ATL stuck in all kinds of traffic. A person 55 miles outside of Detroit has plenty of option. Drive to Detroit. Drive to Ann Arbor, Drive to Windsor, Ontario, Drive to Toledo, Drive to Flint...etc and they could be in these places in less time than it takes for the person to drive to the ATL. I mean, I live in Minneapolis now, having moved here from Detroit. I also lived in Atlanta a couple of years attending college, before moving back to Detroit to finish up my degree. I love the Detroit area and if not for the job situation...would still be there. I loved being able to drive to Toronto and hangout over the weekend....or to Chicago or to Cleveland or to Ann Arbor or Toledo or Windsor. One is not forced to find something to do in Detroit because it is not regionally isolated from other large population centers. Minneapolis is kind of like Atlanta in that it is regionally isolated. Minneapolis is a great city too......but I have not lived anywhere that offered ME what Detroit offered....in terms of options....except for the option of a job. Again, there is over 10 million people in a 100 mile radius....about 4 million more than Atlanta has in a 100 mile radius and 6 million more than Minnneapolis. We live in a mobile society with superhighways......which diminishes the concept of "cities" as nothing more than municiple boundaries that in no way restrict mobility and access. I mean...I do not care what city is responsible for people living in an area......it funtionally changes nothing for my needs of things to do, places to go and people to see in a given area.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 03-06-2012 at 12:20 PM..
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:16 PM
 
Location: NYC by week; ATL by weekend
680 posts, read 602,331 times
Reputation: 270
"Who needs a foreign embassey when one can drive 5 minutes and be in a foreign country?"

Its not as easy as you make it seem. It was easy before but since 9/11 it's not quite that simple. And you cant drive over and shop without paying duties and tariffs when crossing back. If you have crossed that border before and after 9/11, you know of what I speak. And the average "Detroitan" doesnt spend mad time in Canada. Most dont cross the border. Just my .02 cents.
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Old 03-06-2012, 12:25 PM
 
3,986 posts, read 2,498,526 times
Reputation: 1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by SLIMMACKEY View Post
"Who needs a foreign embassey when one can drive 5 minutes and be in a foreign country?"

Its not as easy as you make it seem. It was easy before but since 9/11 it's not quite that simple. And you cant drive over and shop without paying duties and tariffs when crossing back. If you have crossed that border before and after 9/11, you know of what I speak. And the average "Detroitan" doesnt spend mad time in Canada. Most dont cross the border. Just my .02 cents.
You are correct its not that easy anymore.....hopefully, though, they will approve the construction of a second bridge across the river....that will ease the congestion that resulted from 911. Currently they are still debating in the State House. Also....its "Detroiter"....not "Detroitan"....that would be like me saying the typical "Atlanter" does not spend time at foreign embassies in Atlanta. However, I bet you that far more Detroitans go over to Windsor than Atanters go to foreign embasies in Atlanta....lol

That said....I always found that getting out of the US was the easy part. The hard part was getting back in.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 03-06-2012 at 12:34 PM..
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
9,913 posts, read 14,023,964 times
Reputation: 2731
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nairobi View Post
Of course they do, but according to a study done in 2007, Atlanta isn't even a top 10 for cities that are believed to be at a higher risk for tourist attacks:
Sometimes it's nice to not be in the top 10.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
72 posts, read 75,525 times
Reputation: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Actually, I think Philly has an identity problem. Other than sports, we never ever talk about or hear about Philadelphia. Atlanta has more of a national presence than Philly.

But I think Atlanta is thought more of as a business place. A place to find a job. Denver has the outdoor/mountains image...deserved or not. Part of the problem is that Atlanta wants to erase or censor its past.

I could not have said it better myself. I 100% agree with your post.
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:36 PM
 
7,455 posts, read 4,713,685 times
Reputation: 1262
I would say Atlanta is definitely in the Second Tier of cities.

First Tier:

New York
Chicago
Los Angeles
D.C./Baltimore Area
Bay Area

Second Tier:

Boston
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Houston
Dallas
Miami

Third Tier

Seattle
Denver
Minneapolis
Detroit
Cleveland
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Old 03-06-2012, 01:55 PM
 
3,986 posts, read 2,498,526 times
Reputation: 1568
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
I would say Atlanta is definitely in the Second Tier of cities.

First Tier:

New York
Chicago
Los Angeles
D.C./Baltimore Area
Bay Area

Second Tier:

Boston
Philadelphia
Atlanta
Houston
Dallas
Miami

Third Tier

Seattle
Denver
Minneapolis
Detroit
Cleveland
I think Atlanta is in the tier with other large Southern cities (Houston, Dallas, etc).....but not with Boston or Philadelphia. To me its really hard to compare Southern cities with Northern cities for so many different reasons. They are just "different" and are not apples to apples comparisons. When you have areas that were essentially populated with the majority of their people....prior to superhighways.......you cannot measure them by the same yardstick.....I don't think. Usually large Southern areas exist isolated without another larger metro area within a 100 miles, as apposed to many Nothern Citiees where large metro areas merge into other large metro areas (as in the Northeast) or large Metro areas merge with smaller satalite metro areas of between 500k - 1 million (as in the case of the Midwest). Take an area like NE Ohio where you have Cleveland, Akron, Canton and Youngstown Ohio, all in a geographic area smaller than Metro Atlanta. The fact that they are not ONE MEDIA center, but four seperate media centers, reduces their media impact. I think that the larger a given media market it.....the more recogniation and attention the area gets.
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