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Old 04-02-2012, 05:01 AM
 
230 posts, read 216,428 times
Reputation: 80

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I'm still struggling to understand if this plan includes light rail to Gwinnett.

I see it on the list, but I would think if this was the case, it would be a major, major selling point of the tax. Would this tax definitely bring light rail to Gwinnett Arena?
I do not think light rail is included. That list is the unconstrained list from last July.

Here is a map of the final list.
Regional Transportation Referendum - Google Maps JavaScript API v3
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Old 04-02-2012, 06:24 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
221 posts, read 221,619 times
Reputation: 200
Quote:
Originally Posted by tonygeorgia View Post
Well you will pay more than a penny with 3 million additional people on the roads here
Not me. I will be long gone from Atlanta before all those people arrive.
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Old 04-02-2012, 09:17 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Brookhaven)
1,140 posts, read 662,154 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mirabella View Post
Not me. I will be long gone from Atlanta before all those people arrive.
Then why don't you abstain from voting and let those of us staying make the determination as to whether we want to improve our city.
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Old 04-02-2012, 10:11 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
7,406 posts, read 4,132,895 times
Reputation: 1634
I have always said YES on the TSPLOST. Even though I will carry the 9% burden and get nothing from the projects except expanded rail up 400 and to Emory. I am willing to pay 9% sales tax for the good of the region. Hell Birmingham's sales tax is 9.5% as is most of Alabama above 9%. The metro needs these projects.
The Gwinnett line is not on the list since it can not be completed in 10 years. There is money for acquiring ROW along the route and then the line will be built with matching federal funds or in the next TSPLOST.
The Cobb line was replaced with enhanced bus service, BRT. This can be enhanced to LRT in the future. There was so much opposition from Cobb County leaders and residents about the NW line so the project was removed. In my opinion the money from the I-75/575 toll lanes need to be diverted to a LRT line up the same corridor, but GDOT only focuses on roads.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:12 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,697 posts, read 9,895,064 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Local schools are failing....why don't we have a penny tax for that?
We do in Cobb. There is a 1% SPLOST dedicated to schools and it makes a big difference for capital projects and improvements. In my immediate area alone, there have been two new high schools (Hillgrove and Allatoona) opened in the last five years with the money from SPLOST. Had they not been built, the crowding and lack of resources would have directly affected my 3 children. Cobb also has another 1% SPLOST already dedicated to transportation capital expenditures. We take 2% from our citizens for schools and infrastructure. This would be a 3rd penny.

One thing that I think needs to be said...and the usual suspects will probably come out of the woodwork when it is...is that activity should not be confused with achievement. Just having a tax doesn't mean that results will be achieved. We can see that in many examples. If the money is wasted or misapplied, then we may all pay the 1% and get little value back for the expense. My concern, as I've expressed time and again, is that the list of projects serve the pet purposes of some, but not the so-called "greater good" that gets a lot of airplay on this forum.

The key use case that is ignored again, and again, is the suburban commuter who commutes to another suburb. For that person, who makes up a pretty substantial percentage of the population, there will be minimal substance coming from this plan.

The other thing that gets ignored by this kind of 20th century plan is how to make changes to the cultures of many local businesses to bring them into the 21st century. In many cases, you can get people off the roads by new types of working arrangements. Flex hours, telecommuting, and other common work practices need to be used more by businesses in Atlanta. These changes can get many people off the roads or off the roads at peak times. I hear nothing about how to promote the infrastructure necessary or the business change necessary to accomplish it.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
7,406 posts, read 4,132,895 times
Reputation: 1634
Quote:
The key use case that is ignored again, and again, is the suburban commuter who commutes to another suburb. For that person, who makes up a pretty substantial percentage of the population, there will be minimal substance coming from this plan.
The Cobb Line was the first leg of a top-end-perimeter route that would connect Cumberland to Doraville via Dunwoddy station. The TSPLOST is not an end-all fix, it is the start of an investment. After the 10 years are up, we the citizens get to vote for another TSPLOST that runs another 10 years, just like the ESPLOST.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:47 PM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,697 posts, read 9,895,064 times
Reputation: 3235
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
The Cobb Line was the first leg of a top-end-perimeter route that would connect Cumberland to Doraville via Dunwoddy station. The TSPLOST is not an end-all fix, it is the start of an investment. After the 10 years are up, we the citizens get to vote for another TSPLOST that runs another 10 years, just like the ESPLOST.
That was NOT how it was proposed.

The first leg of the Cobb line, was to be completed in the next 10 years, from MARTA in Atlanta (Arts Center or Lindbergh?) to Cumberland. The second phase was proposed as going from Cumberland to Kennesaw or Acworth, as part of a renewal of the TSPLOST and taking up to 20 years to complete.

I would probably be more in favor of a Cumberland to Dunwoody or Doraville line as the first stage, which then connected potentially to Acworth as a second stage, but that was not what was proposed.
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Old 04-02-2012, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
7,406 posts, read 4,132,895 times
Reputation: 1634
You have to do research and dig deep to find what future projects are proposed. The interstate systems wasn't built in 10 years, so why do you expect a transit system?
Quote:
I would probably be more in favor of a Cumberland to Dunwoody or Doraville line as the first stage, which then connected potentially to Acworth as a second stage, but that was not what was proposed.
Without the leg to existing MARTA in Midtown it is pointless to build from Cumberland to Doraville. By having the Arts Center to Cumberland it puts employers at Cumberland\Galleria area in direct connection to Hartsfield-Jackson. The Cobb representatives on the roundtable didn't see it that way so hold YOUR elected officials accountable.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:10 PM
 
4,337 posts, read 3,836,473 times
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We have a education SPLOST in Gwinnett county as well, and it was recently voted back in. It sounds like it works much like the Cobb SPLOST where it is used mainly for capital expenditures like books, technology, I think it even funds the construction of new schools. The thing about the school SPLOST is it stays local.

I have a lot of concern with this TSPLOST being regional. As a resident of Gwinnett county, I know how much commerce happens here. Between the Mall of Georgia, Discover Mills, the Pleasant Hill corridor, Snellville, and so on, there is TONS of commerce going on. If the tax rate in Atlanta goes to 9%, I would imagine even more commerce shifting to Gwinnett to try to escape the extra tax in Atlanta, especially for large purchases. Trouble is, I don't see a lot of benefit for Gwinnett with this money. So I think we will be contributing an awful lot of money and seeing very minimal return. Fine, some road improvements....a STUDY on mass transit, blah blah blah. Pretty weak sauce for an extra percentage on everything I buy for 10 years.

I like the education SPLOST and the park SPLOST because they make where I live more desirable. Let me ask you, though, how inclined would you be to fund an education SPLOST if you knew that most of the money would be funneled to failing Atlanta and Clayton county schools? If the CDC and Emory want a MARTA expansion, that is freaking great. I'm all for it. If I'm going to fund mass transit, though, I want access to it.

TSPLOST is a fail for Gwinnett county, and I imagine many of the counties that are being asked to vote on it. I will be extremely surprised if it passes.

Had it actually created the light rail to Gwinnett Arena, though, it would be a total no-brainer. I'd even vote in a 2 penny tax for that. But a penny for some minor roadwork? No, thank you. We're a pretty smart bunch up here and we'll figure out how to fund the road projects we need another way.
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Old 04-02-2012, 02:14 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Brookhaven)
1,140 posts, read 662,154 times
Reputation: 632
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
We have a education SPLOST in Gwinnett county as well, and it was recently voted back in. It sounds like it works much like the Cobb SPLOST where it is used mainly for capital expenditures like books, technology, I think it even funds the construction of new schools. The thing about the school SPLOST is it stays local.

I have a lot of concern with this TSPLOST being regional. As a resident of Gwinnett county, I know how much commerce happens here. Between the Mall of Georgia, Discover Mills, the Pleasant Hill corridor, Snellville, and so on, there is TONS of commerce going on. If the tax rate in Atlanta goes to 9%, I would imagine even more commerce shifting to Gwinnett to try to escape the extra tax in Atlanta, especially for large purchases. Trouble is, I don't see a lot of benefit for Gwinnett with this money. Fine, some road improvements....a STUDY on mass transit, blah blah blah. Pretty weak sauce for an extra percentage on everything I buy for 10 years.

I like the education SPLOST and the park SPLOST because they make where I live more desirable. Let me ask you, though, how inclined would you be to fund an education SPLOST if you knew that most of the money would be funneled to failing Atlanta and Clayton county schools? If the CDC and Emory want a MARTA expansion, that is freaking great. I'm all for it. If I'm going to fund mass transit, though, I want access to it.

TSPLOST is a fail for Gwinnett county, and I imagine many of the counties that are being asked to vote on it. I will be extremely surprised if it passes.

Had it actually created the light rail to Gwinnett Arena, though, it would be a total no-brainer. I'd even vote in a 2 penny tax for that. But a penny for some minor roadwork? No, thank you. We're a pretty smart bunch up here and we'll figure out how to fund the road projects we need another way.
As a Dekalb resident, I would also pay a 2% tax for rail to Gwinnett arena.
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