2012 Atlanta Region Transportation Referendum (Marietta, Duluth: home, vs., statistics)

[RC1981]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Well, that is true.

I lived within walking distance of a MARTA station for 7 years and probably used it less than 30 times during that entire period.

It did go to where I worked, but I could get there by car in 15 minutes, or by MARTA in usualy 20 or so depending on how long I had to wait. Even if gas went to $5 per gallon, it still would have cost me more in MARTA fare to get to and from than gasoline.

It's kind of a catch-22. The people who MARTA would most likely benefit the most, suburbanites, are the ones who don't have access to it. In the city you don't really need it that much because you can drive most places fairly quickly. It's use is best when you are going places where parking might be an issue.

Which is exactly what I meant when I said Atlanta is NOT a city that needs more public transportation, the one you already have is so incredibly underused and overpriced that its continued expansion is entirely futile.

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Ladies and gentlemen, this gentleman is precisely is why I have an issue with some MARTA supporters. Talk about twisting reality.

Maybe I'll vote against it just so jerks like you don't get more transport.

How has anything I've said in this entire thread led you to believe that I am a MARTA supporter?

Originally Posted by arjay57

No, you can't force people to change and I haven't heard anyone seriously suggest that.

However, you can start creating options that are useful and attractive. Sure, you may get some heat in the process, but I can't think of much that succeeded by saying, "That's the way it has been for 40 years, so that's just the way it is."

Ok then, head up to Cobb County and poll some people on whether or not they want MARTA in their community. Suggest a nice big terminal right at Town Center Mall and watch what happens.

Seriously, try it

[tonygeorgia]

Cobb wants rail, just not Marta. They can easily make their own version that will connect to Marta

[tonygeorgia]

I can see from about half the postings on here that most of you never traveled anywhere. Anybody that thinks light/heavy rail does not benefit the community needs to travel more

[RC1981]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Sweeping generalizations. A little less than 500,000 people per day on average disagree with you.

And 95% agree, which we can estimate to be someplace around 3 or 4 million other people.

2% take the train, 3% take the bus.

Meanwhile, 82% drive. The rest work from home, carpool, or walk, none of which require public transportation.

Source: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...ide04_ST_N.htm

When 95% of the people actively choose NOT to use their public transportation option, it's pretty safe to say that they don't want it, and that it isn't really the right fit for their lifestyle.

[Adric]

Originally Posted by RC1981

And 95% agree, which we can estimate to be someplace around 3 or 4 million other people.

2% take the train, 3% take the bus.

Meanwhile, 82% drive. The rest work from home, carpool, or walk, none of which require public transportation.

Source: Atlanta workers find ways to deal with commute - USATODAY.com

When 95% of the people actively choose NOT to use their public transportation option, it's pretty safe to say that they don't want it, and that it isn't really the right fit for their lifestyle.

That's not an entirely accurate statement.

95% of metro Atlanta doesn't use Marta because it doesn't serve their areas.

The area it does serve -Fulton and Dekalb counties- houses roughly 1.5 million people.

1,500,000 / 500,000 = 33.3% daily ridership for area served

That ain't bad by national standards.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

Legislators only want this tax passed because it saves them from having to make tough decisions to figure out how to handle projects. Taxpayers to the rescue! Don't you think if Congress proposed a national sales tax that would force Americans to pay off the nation debt that it would cut through partisan red tape and everybody would support it? Of course they want us to do their jobs for them! We're so far away from being lapped by Birmingham, it's ludicrous. They don't even want to lap us. If we get lapped by Birmingham, it's because people have decided they want smaller towns that are easier to navigate, certainly not because they want more public transportation!

Dude GA is 48th in transportation funding, You can't cry fail for suggestion to pay more taxes for transportation.

2nd Voting ... No isn't going to get the government to fund this the way you want it to. It will be a lose lose, not only will the gov not fund this the way you want it to, but if this don't pass we still will be behind in transportation. This isn't a social experiment there will be consequencess if this don't pass.

But that's interesting though you would rather for the region to be behind in transportation infrastructure if the government don't fund this the way you want it too, which is already not likely to happen. Let say the gov does come out with a plan ) 10 to 15 years from now. Would that wasted time starting then what could be started now, be worth it? I would rather pay the penny than to wait on the government to do something not likely to even happen.

Birmingham was a exaggeration but I get the point he was making, It's more like falling too far behind Houston and Dallas, And let Charlotte, Nashville, Raleigh, and Tampa gain in ours expenses.

No it isn't. It's a rail line that will be cool, but will do practically nothing to make actually getting around the city any easier. I don't think even the biggest optimist thinks anybody is going to commute on the BeltLine. It's a neat project, but I'd throw it on the back burner and funnel all of its resources into rail that people will actually use.

Most of the city growth in going to be in or around the built line. Also the street car lines are going to connect with the beltline. It's transit oriented development. Areas along the beltline are going to be redevelop, people will use the line. The project is significant to the city growth plans.

On flipside I disagree with some of the others things he said, "Atlanta that is losing ground to such “left wing cities” as Dallas, Houston, Salt Lake City, Denver and Charlotte."..... WTF I can tell you right now Atlanta is way more liberal then cities. ) Also Houston and Dallas don't look like DC either. Atlanta's unemployment numbers are getting better it's the housing market in Atlanta that's jack up.
......

Originally Posted by RC1981

And 95% agree, which we can estimate to be someplace around 3 or 4 million other people.

2% take the train, 3% take the bus.

Meanwhile, 82% drive. The rest work from home, carpool, or walk, none of which require public transportation.

Source: Atlanta workers find ways to deal with commute - USATODAY.com

When 95% of the people actively choose NOT to use their public transportation option, it's pretty safe to say that they don't want it, and that it isn't really the right fit for their lifestyle.

TSPLOST is not just about public transit most of the projects are road projects.

Then there's still little alternative choices, Marta compare to other systems don't go anywhere, nothing is connected to take someone anywhere. What do you expect. Calhoun Georgia is not even apart of metro Atlanta. Of course public transportation ridership is low the only people who use it is to just go down the street or move around there own county. The advantage of public transportation to travel across the metro doesn't even exist. Metro Atlantans don't really even have the option to commute across the metro with public transportation. And it's not about forcing people it's about having alternative choices.

[chiatldal]

Originally Posted by Adric

That's not entirely an accurate statement.

95% of metro Atlanta doesn't use Marta because it doesn't serve their areas.

The area it does serve -Fulton and Dekalb counties- houses roughly 1.5 million people.

1,500,000 / 500,000 = 33.3% daily ridership for area served

That ain't bad by national standards.

Bingo )

Because the public transportation systems are so balkanized by counties there's no advantage with commuting. The alternative choices are not even there.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by RC1981

Ok then, head up to Cobb County and poll some people on whether or not they want MARTA in their community. Suggest a nice big terminal right at Town Center Mall and watch what happens.

Seriously, try it

I've talked to some of them about it. This ain't your grandpa's Cobb County, you know!

[RC1981]

Originally Posted by Adric

That's not an entirely accurate statement.

95% of metro Atlanta doesn't use Marta because it doesn't serve their areas.

The area it does serve -Fulton and Dekalb counties- houses roughly 1.5 million people.

1,500,000 / 500,000 = 33.3% daily ridership for area served

That ain't bad by national standards.

So then we just knock the phrase "Metro" out of Metro Atlanta Rapid Transit Authority? There are connections, somehow, all over the "metro area" to get to MARTA if you want to. People aren't using them, not even in the areas of Fulton and Dekalb that are closer to the ends of the line. Go to almost any other city in the world with a metro rail system and the terminus stations are among the highest used. People will drive to the last station and hop on the train there...why are they not doing it at North Springs? Why are they not doing it at Hightower? Why are people willingly driving right past these great public transportation options and choosing to sit in traffic staring at them without getting on the train?

Gwinnett has a system that connects to MARTA, as does Cobb. I will be willing to bet the number of people that use them daily to commute from the suburbs into Atlanta is under 10'000. Probably under 1'000. Probably under 500. So if we look at the entire metro area, that COULD somehow get to MARTA and use it, 95% are in fact choosing not to.

I never doubted it serves people well in the urban core of the city (even though I personally have never met a single person there that uses it, but whatever), but when you talk about spending all kinds of money to extend it out to the burbs where people already have public transportation options that they're not using, then you're cooking up an expensive exercise in futility.

Now, other cities and states across the country have bus systems that extend all the way out to rural areas, let alone suburbs, and they have huge ridership, probably more than Atlanta has on MARTA itself. Those systems work great because the people there choose to use public transportation when it is offered them. People (let's just use the phrase OTP) that are in the proposed zones for this extended service just don't want it. Plain and simple. They don't want their tax money spent on it, they don't want to ride it, they don't want the construction in their neighborhoods, they don't want undesirable people having access to their communities.

I will promise you that if it came up for a vote on a ballot that the people of Cobb County would strike it down convincingly. Guaranteed. Gwinnett, maybe not because they have grown and could probably use a rail extension, I'll grant you that, but still, even in areas where suburban rail extensions are available in Dekalb and Fulton they're not being used. Why then do we assume that an extension all the way up to the rural backwoods like Bartow County is going to be viable? That's insane...

[shivtim]

^It would help if you used any sort of facts to back up your opinion. As it stands, you're pulling numbers our of your you-know-where and spouting your anecdotes and opinions like they're gospel truth.

This thread is about the Regional Transportation Referendum, so it's irrelevant if Cobb County alone (or Gwinnett County alone, etc) would vote for a MARTA sales tax. This is a multi-county transportation sales tax, the majority of which will pay for roads.