Real talk about sprawl (Atlanta, Roswell: high schools, estate, title)

[4KBH]

Originally Posted by 10 feet tall

What do you mean? Your link shows a 637 square foot condo listed for $285K. Surely you would rather have the smaller place with a prime location near cool bars than a "McMansion in the suburbs". You know that younger people these days want location more than space, right?

Ok, ok. I kid.

And you raise a very good point.

[4KBH]

Originally Posted by ATLTJL

The discipline problems don't really begin until middle school or high school, so that's the real test.

Hmmm.. might I suggest reading some of the Developmental Psych, Ed. Admin and Ed Policy literature? Discipline problems are indeed beginning in ES. In addition, there's a preponderance of evidence that suggests if kids don't get optimal primary education, they are behind throughout.

Incidentally, I don't know about you, but I'd like for my kids to go to a culturally diverse school. The video tried hard to show a couple of white kids and parents selectively, but if you pay attention to the wide shots, the place looks at least 80% black. I don't call that diverse.

On this one, we agree! Ironcially, when I visited some of the intown schools (GP Charter, especially) there were very FEW "brown children." When I visited the zoned school (Parkside) it was about 85% Black, and the classrooms are PACKED with kids. Both schools are zoned to the 30312 zipcode. Which, makes me ask another question: how IS admission determined in the good schools in the more affordable areas (Grant Park)?

When I visited Lin, it was more diverse. Yet, it's zoned to Druid Hills/Lake Claire and Candler Park, where the "undesirables" are priced out. It just irritates me...

While I want my kids to not be the only kids who look like them, I also do not want to see them over-represented.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by Onthemove2014

I am sure the schools are better too. You totally left out the issue with schools being terrible for the price in most of Atlanta's affordable urban areas as well as safety. I am convinced some of you are doing it on purpose to dodge the real issue. You can claim all you want about American's wanting space but until Atlanta gets urban homes that are in good neighborhoods and schools zones at affordable prices then you have no right to compare Atlanta to places that offer all of that.

I was listening to you until I read the highlighted sentence. Personal insults do no favors to your position (and, quite frankly, make it look less palatable).

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by 4KBH

Huh? If you want to debate, try not using analogies that hinge on pathological. And the "worse" housing market obviously didn't translate to IPark, et al. Wonder why? Take a guess... *hint, see my original post*



Once more, how many parents who desire ITP with limited income have you spoken with? In addition, when you say "limited quarters" what do you reference? 900sf? 15ksf? Having lived in MANY urban areas, I've successfully raised a child in a 700sf condo, and currently live in a 1400sf townhome in GPark? So, it's clear that sf is not the only reason driving my decision (and that of other parents I've spoken with) to possibly move.



"Opinions" do not make good evidence, my friend. Which, unfortunately, I read throughout your entire "proposal'


Ok, even my husband had to laugh at this one. If I lived in the aforementioned it wouldn't be an issue, primarily because these areas (maybe with the exception of London) made significant investments in education. Also, have you seen the housing prices in downtown Tokyo, and London?



Ok, now I MUST laugh at this. To use NYC as an example of what most parents can do, implies that you are completely devoid of any real data. First: NYC has among the WORSE public school systems in the country. That's why parents in NYC spent $30K+ for private school. Second: Have you looked at the real estate in NYC? Google, my friend. Third: The folks "living the urban experience" in NYC are usually hedge-fund managers, and Wall street folks making a collective income of >$500/ann. For those who don't, they are forced into bad areas of the city, with high crime, and horrible schools. BTW, my husband's family lived in the Bronx in the 70s. After fighting for their children to receive a good education (and the myriad issues many face living in the city) they moved to Westchester Co. This decision was NOT because my in-laws wanted a larger home: yet because they were tired of substandard education, going broke on private school, and dealing with the element that's unfortunately endemic in many (non-gentrified, hipster) urban areas. That's another issue I'll address, at another time...the "different" urban experiences, based on class, and race. Stay tuned.



It's clear you've chosen not to address the central thesis of my argument: E.D.U.C.A.T.I.O.N. THat you seem to have reduced your argument to an entitlement culture and need for more square footage, implies you have not thoroughly vetted the major stakeholders when you posed this plan. What it reads like is that you've made huge assertions, based on your own personal experiences, and believe that others should follow in lock-step because if it works in your framework, it should work for others. And if others do not acquise, they are simply greedy, entitled, resource-draining, urban-philes who are waiting for the chance to build the largest house in the burbs. While there are those who clearly prefer a suburban lifestyle, once more I ask, what about those who do not, yet are left with few options for their children's education?




Based on what evidence? This statement reads highly ideological, and is based on your opinion of why folks are leaving the city. Address the real issues and not those that fit nicely into your ideological framework.

And that goes for you too. Stop assuming what my positions are (because I sometimes take a side I don't even agree with, just to play devil's advocate or test out a different idea), and stop with the personal attacks. I've been around the block a time or three. Haven't spoken to anyone? LOL, yeah, okay.

But if it's education that you want to attack, by all means, bring on that fight. I'm more than ready.

[toll_booth]

Originally Posted by arjay57

It comes down to personal choice:

(a) You can jump in and work to make things better. A lot of folks do that and meet with great success, and find it quite fulfilling for their families.

or

(b) You can elect to move somewhere else where it seems like the schools are better.

You just summed up pretty much every urban problem in one question.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

I was listening to you until I read the highlighted sentence. Personal insults do no favors to your position (and, quite frankly, make it look less palatable).

You have thin skin if you think saying someone is dodging an issue is a insult. That doesn't even make sense.

[Onthemove2014]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

And that goes for you too. Stop assuming what my positions are (because I sometimes take a side I don't even agree with, just to play devil's advocate or test out a different idea), and stop with the personal attacks. I've been around the block a time or three. Haven't spoken to anyone? LOL, yeah, okay.

But if it's education that you want to attack, by all means, bring on that fight. I'm more than ready.

Yeah, I'm going to call out that you are trolling now. She never assaulted you or anything.

[4KBH]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

And that goes for you too. Stop assuming what my positions are (because I sometimes take a side I don't even agree with, just to play devil's advocate or test out a different idea), and stop with the personal attacks. I've been around the block a time or three. Haven't spoken to anyone? LOL, yeah, okay.

But if it's education that you want to attack, by all means, bring on that fight. I'm more than ready.

Nice. It's not about a fight, my friend. It's about making ideologically-based "solutions" devoid of a comprehensive analysis; and then insulting those who don't acquiese.

I do have a question: do you have children (school-aged?) if so, where do they attend school?

[JPD]

Originally Posted by 4KBH

First: NYC has among the WORSE public school systems in the country.

I love it when people harp on education while putting their lack of basic vocabulary skills on display.

[4KBH]

Originally Posted by toll_booth

And that goes for you too. Stop assuming what my positions are (because I sometimes take a side I don't even agree with, just to play devil's advocate or test out a different idea),

Hmmm... this reads more like someone who's run into an argument he/she can't defend. Also, I highly doubt that 48+ posts on this thread is because you're playing "devil's advocate." I honest believe (from reading YOUR posts), that you actually believe in the urban-density will solve all problems/folks sprawl due to entitlement and greed positions you've posted. And when you have an opposing viewpoint that blows holes in your proposition, doesn't dance around the beliefs that rests in the margins--yet, exposes it for the ideology it is--you retreat and play victim? Classy.

Also, exactly where did you read an insult?