Atlanta class obsession/Class insecurity. (Jackson, White: insurance, homes, neighborhood)
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Class warfare is hardly a situation unique to Atlanta
Wanted to agree with this first as it is true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
I would make the opposite observation. I personally respect people who go out and work low wage jobs in an effort to support themselves and their family. I respect people who do what they need to do, and I think part of the "American dream" is that anyone can start off in a low income job and do things to improve. The real difference is between those people who do those things like get training or an education, versus those who do things that hinder their life.
What I don't respect are the people who refuse to take low wage jobs because they're "too good" and would rather take taxpayer money and complain instead. I don't respect people who drop out of school at age 16 to have a baby or someone who takes drugs, and then they want the taxpayers to bail them out of their bad choices. I notice occasionally people on this forum taking the talking points from political campaigns and go off on class warfare with regards to "corporations" and "the rich" much more than the opposite.
I also agree with the above, especially the bolded section.
Honestly in a way I look down on people who only buy specific brands or who brag about a new car as I think that is idiotic. I am not focused on material things. Especially when people brag about their kids/baby's clothes or something since kids outgrow things all the time. I don't buy any brand name kid stuff and people who brag about doing that are people I think who are trying to prove that they are better than someone when they aren't.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL3000
I think that sort of attitude is common with people who come from poorer backgrounds and who happen to start making a little more money than they are accustomed to. It's doesn't even have to be all that much money and in fact, I have seen people look down on others who make more than them because their job has some sort of stigma attached to it(e.g. fast food manager). I also honestly think a lot of the contempt is based on paranoia that they could just as easily be in that position or worse if just a few things go wrong. They don't have much to fall back on either monetarily, or skills-wise in case something were to happen with their current job.
People who come from middle class and higher backgrounds don't usually have that attitude past their college years. I doubt many even really think about it.
I also agree with this. Even though I grew up poor (my mom was even on welfare for a couple years of my childhood and was a teen mom), my extended family were solidly middle class and I do think that coupled with my mom's determination and hard work to pull herself out of the situation she placed herself into by becoming a teen mother (she went back to school, worked, and now owns her own successful business) and being surrounded by my grandparents and aunts and uncles who had decent incomes and didn't make a big deal about material things, really made me view money and materialism in a different way than a lot of my peers.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarzanman
Uh. Having a wife who is black doesn't give you any special insight into 'black' culture. You're getting a glimpse. And a small one at that.
FWIW, he didn't say he was an "expert" he said he was familiar with black culture (though I might add that there is really not one specific black culture - I am black BTW).
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
Excellent point that gets forgotten by many black people, especially the so-called "leaders of the black community."
This especially comes to play when we have political campaigns that take the black vote for granted on the Democrat side. The assumption is that all black people have the same opinions and self-interests, which is not the case. Guys like Herman Cain end up taking more heat from the "black community" and its so-called leaders than they do from anyone in the white community.
Even though this is off topic, I will comment that there are no such things as "leaders of the black community" that is a ridiculous statement and would be like me saying that there are "leaders of the white community."
And FWIW, Herman Cain took a lot of heat from the "black community" because he generalized us the same way that you are doing. He also liked to denigrate "black people" as a whole. One particular comment I remember him saying when asked why don't more black people attend his campaign/tea party events, he responded by saying that black people couldn't afford to go to them as if all black people are poor. He is a caracture IMO and FWIW, I am not a democrat and I do like some members of the GOP and Libertarians so am not on a "plantation" another thing that Cain said that was very generalized. Like you state in your comment, black people don't all think the same thing or agree on all topics just because we are black. Anyone who says as such IMO is an idiot and not worth my time, just like people who go out and buy babies $50 shoes yet are on food stamps have issues IMO and are not worth my time.
Even though this is off topic, I will comment that there are no such things as "leaders of the black community" that is a ridiculous statement and would be like me saying that there are "leaders of the white community."
I agree in fact. What I am saying is that folks like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, the NAACP, and others see themselves as the "leaders of the black community" when that community is in fact very diverse in thought and personal situation and experience.
You make my point, but you also need to acknowledge that folks like the two I mention specifically see themselves as spokesmen.
Even though this is off topic, I will comment that there are no such things as "leaders of the black community" that is a ridiculous statement and would be like me saying that there are "leaders of the white community."
And FWIW, Herman Cain took a lot of heat from the "black community" because he generalized us the same way that you are doing. He also liked to denigrate "black people" as a whole. One particular comment I remember him saying when asked why don't more black people attend his campaign/tea party events, he responded by saying that black people couldn't afford to go to them as if all black people are poor. He is a caracture IMO and FWIW, I am not a democrat and I do like some members of the GOP and Libertarians so am not on a "plantation" another thing that Cain said that was very generalized. Like you state in your comment, black people don't all think the same thing or agree on all topics just because we are black. Anyone who says as such IMO is an idiot and not worth my time, just like people who go out and buy babies $50 shoes yet are on food stamps have issues IMO and are not worth my time.
I think you need to chill out and re-read what he said. He clearly said "supposed" and put " leaders of the black community" in quotes to simbalize he doesn't think there are real leaders. Then he went into saying the same thing you are saying. You may need to try again.
Let me break it down. Atlanta is very superficial. People do judge you by the type of vehicle you drive and their perception of your wealth. There are so many people walking around looking like barbie dolls who are incapable of forming an intelligent thought or opinion (hence the lack of engaging, intelligent conversation) but feel they are somebody now that they took their funds from their $15 an hour job and bought a Mercedes. People live way beyond their means on a regular basis trying to impress people. Here's the thing that intelligent people understand .....the outside doesn't verify the inside. Ohhhhh. Truth.
I go agree that Atlanta has that new money culture attitude. For those of you who don't know, it's the mentality of flashiness for those people who never had any type of money or success. Old money has the history and advantage of being accustomed to the finer things therefore the flashiness is not necessary. It's why "new money" shows up with a watch on that looks like a walking chandelier with diamonds everywhere. Old money will show up in nice tailored clothing with a Patek Philippe watch.
People in Atlanta have officially caught the vapors. So many people's finances are bad because they are insecure about who they are, being loved for who they are, and are chasing the acceptance of others through the "acquiring" of material possesions to prove to others they are worthy of others approval or acceptance. The reality: you are a walking financial nightmare if you don't put your financial priorities in order. Anyone who forms relationships (friendship or otherwise) with someone who does not understand the importance of: living below your means, investing to create wealth, and money management (so you can have money to ENJOY life and prepare for your future) is retarded. Everyone is trying to keep up with the Joneses in Atlanta.
Jay-Z said it best: you can go to school but you can't buy class. Etiquette rule: name dropping is considered done in poor taste.
It's so bad that people can't hold a decent conversation half the time without being phoney. I sometimes break social norm and make people feel uncomfortable by informing them: "I didn't ask you how much money you make." They don't know what to say.
I've known people myself that had cars that worked fine but they are interested in getting in debt for another vehicle so they can have some perceived standard of wealth in others eyes. Low self esteem is a hard pill to swallow.
You would think in this economy when people have lost jobs, 6 figure salaries, lost their homes, and their lives have been ripped apart financially that the need to live within your financial means would be paramount for everyone.
I agree in fact. What I am saying is that folks like Jessie Jackson, Al Sharpton, Louis Farrakhan, the NAACP, and others see themselves as the "leaders of the black community" when that community is in fact very diverse in thought and personal situation and experience.
You make my point, but you also need to acknowledge that folks like the two I mention specifically see themselves as spokesmen.
I don't know what they think or see themselves as. Personally I see Jackson and Sharpton as media whores similar to Rush Limbaugh or Chris Matthews or the like, Sharpton even has a show on MSNBC and has had a radio show for years in order to be a media figure. Farrakhan is a racist and even though the NAACP is not as big a deal as they used to be I do respect their legal defense work. But that is an organization, not a leader as well.
I just get sick of people thinking that black people have one specific leader and wanted to address that. On this..
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014
I think you need to chill out and re-read what he said. He clearly said "supposed" and put " leaders of the black community" in quotes to simbalize he doesn't think there are real leaders. Then he went into saying the same thing you are saying. You may need to try again.
I have no need to chill since I'm not hot LOL! Nothing much bothers me personally, and FWIW, he didn't say "supposed" he said "so-called." I don't know what he thinks either, the only person whose thoughts I know are myself. I also did state that I agreed with him on specific points in my post.
Honestly in a way I look down on people who only buy specific brands or who brag about a new car as I think that is idiotic. I am not focused on material things. Especially when people brag about their kids/baby's clothes or something since kids outgrow things all the time. I don't buy any brand name kid stuff and people who brag about doing that are people I think who are trying to prove that they are better than someone when they aren't.
To me, my feeling is what does it matter what other people do, as long as they don't ask me to pay for it? If people brag about what they buy or brands they think are status symbols, then don't hang around those people and/or ignore them.
Personally, I buy value and sometimes brands provide that value and sometimes they don't. A great and simple example is that I only buy Heinz ketchup....period. I don't care if it's 20x more expensive. I also only buy Q-tips brand....period. Some things are better and provide more value.
Its apart of the ATL - Wannabe Hollywood Culture. Luckily I have a girlfriend who does not care about material things and what other black people think and she hates Atlantas Black Culture more than I do, I like to make fun of Atlanta people, but my girl really takes the things black woman say about her at her job to heart. I always point out that the women who are teasing her about driving a ford explorer and wearing her hair natural dont even have boyfriends or husbands and that she does. She always says "why people always talking about me" I tell her, because they want to have control over how she moves. Its a big reason many of the posters here dont like me, especially the black ones. Adults in their 30s and 40s are just as guilty.
Tell your girl not to listen to those other black girls. Your girlfriend is a woman who has her head on straight (which makes her good wife material) and in the real world increasing your wealth happens when you diminish your expenses. They don't need input in what you two are doing...they need to mind their overfinanced, lonely, manless, unhappy lives and take notes from your girl because she has a winning mentality. Tell her to ignore the haters. They just want her to be stressed out and insecure because they are: that's the only reason why they are living stupidly. You two keep laughing all the way to the bank. Susie Orman, Dave Ramsey, and Thomas Stanley are giving you two a thumbs up.
There is nothing wrong with your girlfriend's way of thinking or her hair. Natural hair means something real and it's unbelievable for them to comprehend a woman who is secure and confident with who she is and not some image she is trying to project. People are talking about her because they want to be her. Can you image how horrible your life would be if you keep trying to buy your importance, always trying to gain someone's approval by acquiring debt? Then you see someone come along that has a happy relationship, doesn't have to rock the new Mercedes/BMW, wears her natural hair, enjoys their life because they are not causing themselves financial stress by living beyond their means AND she has a good man who is intelligent enough to agree with her thinking........frustrating for them.
Tell your girl to stop defending herself. Tell her they are a little too concerned about her business. They need to watch their own hand. She's a woman and women don't need advice from hating little girls.
Tell her to just keep singing this chorus in her head when they start getting on her nerves:
"I does what you can't, I'm everythin' that you ain't"
Thank Lil Kim
Let me break it down. Atlanta is very superficial. People do judge you by the type of vehicle you drive and their perception of your wealth. There are so many people walking around looking like barbie dolls who are incapable of forming an intelligent thought or opinion (hence the lack of engaging, intelligent conversation) but feel they are somebody now that they took their funds from their $15 an hour job and bought a Mercedes. People live way beyond their means on a regular basis trying to impress people. Here's the thing that intelligent people understand .....the outside doesn't verify the inside. Ohhhhh. Truth.
I go agree that Atlanta has that new money culture attitude. For those of you who don't know, it's the mentality of flashiness for those people who never had any type of money or success. Old money has the history and advantage of being accustomed to the finer things therefore the flashiness is not necessary. It's why "new money" shows up with a watch on that looks like a walking chandelier with diamonds everywhere. Old money will show up in nice tailored clothing with a Patek Philippe watch. People in Atlanta have officially caught the vapors. So many people's finances are bad because they are insecure about who they are, being loved for who they are, and are chasing the acceptance of others through the "acquiring" of material possesions to prove to others they are worthy of others approval or acceptance. The reality: you are a walking financial nightmare if you don't put your financial priorities in order. Anyone who forms relationships (friendship or otherwise) with someone who does not understand the importance of: living below your means, investing to create wealth, and money management (so you can have money to ENJOY life and prepare for your future) is retarded. Everyone is trying to keep up with the Joneses in Atlanta.
Jay-Z said it best: you can go to school but you can't buy class. Etiquette rule: name dropping is considered done in poor taste.
It's so bad that people can't hold a decent conversation half the time without being phoney. I sometimes break social norm and make people feel uncomfortable by informing them: "I didn't ask you how much money you make." They don't know what to say.
I've known people myself that had cars that worked fine but they are interested in getting in debt for another vehicle so they can have some perceived standard of wealth in others eyes. Low self esteem is a hard pill to swallow.
You would think in this economy when people have lost jobs, 6 figure salaries, lost their homes, and their lives have been ripped apart financially that the need to live within your financial means would be paramount for everyone.
Though I agree with you're points mostly, I must add that nothing is wrong with new money or "nouveau riche" if you will. To some, At the end of the day, the " riche " is all that matters. We all want to provide better for the future, whatever our future's, whether it be us or our kids. Its the way people carry themselves that is the problem. Old money is the same way. I dont cosighn any of the behaviors that I have seen in the city but to say that the majority as a whole are faking it till they make it is a bit much. Way too extreme. I think that the non black population can be very superficial also. They judge you on what you do also...There are numbers of people in Atlanta and every other city whom are superficial in this sense. I personally dont rock like that or hold court with people that do. I own certain nice things, but if I have to have certain things to be accepted by a group of people, then thats one group that doesnt have to worry about me.
This problem is rampant everywhere. Not just ATL. IMHO, it seems like it is more of an issue with minorities when other minorities display it......real talk.
People are different, no doubt about it..some flashy, some discreet. Some lighter in hue, some tanned. So if the ISSUE is pervasive superficialness, then lets discuss it on a universal note. Cause we all know there is a difference is flashy and classist correct? And ***** shoulda been the last person to comment on that....went from gold fronts in the 80's/90's to rockin those same gaudy jewels you just described in the late 90's early 2000's. So he doesn't wear jewels now? OK. Looks like that money bought some class....
Honestly, if people can afford it, spend it. Our economy is built around consumption and we need those of us w/ cash to spend as freely as possible. That's not to say they should spend to their detriment but we need our rich to be absolutely as conspicuous as possible. We need the person to spend five figures on a good day at Lenox/Phipps since every valet, salesperson, and janitor is dependent on those dollars flowing through our economy. We need velocity of spending...swapping Benzes every 2 yrs creates a healthy secondary market and tons of resales and more commissions as well as plenty of cheap to buy/expensive to maintain vehicles to keep our auto repair services thriving. If keeping up w/ the Joneses means more jobs, I say your Bentley is looking a bit tired and you need a new one.
Every person that needs a new BMW to say to the world they've made it is honestly a good thing for our economy (buy a Cadillac if your tastes will bear it). From the salesman that pulls in a fat commission on the car to the service tech that will be called in weekly to fix it, that's money back into the economy. If you're actually wealthy, spending is absolutely a good thing for the rest of us. If I were their financial adviser, I'd of course advocate the opposite. So yes, tell everyone to spend happily as long as they have resources to spare. Rich people's vanity can have a huge impact on our economy and often they can spend much more freely w/o any impact on their long term wealth. I'm not advocating the Evander Holyfield approach although if you think about it he basically pulled a Biltmore (monument to vanity + unexpected maintenance costs = foreclosure) so it's not really a recent nouveau riche mistake exclusively. Of course even in ruin, Holyfield's financial nightmare generates jobs in liquidation specialists and lawyers. Maybe they'll put up a vineyard and have walking tours a century from now.
This advice isn't for you and I who work to pay mortgages and don't have 7 figures in the bank. Anyone that has to spread out Bimmer payments over 6 yrs+ or the purchase price meets/exceeds your annual gross needs to have your head examined. Americans as a whole are terrible at math but most of us can figure out if the car you drive is leading to your financial doom vs. thinking you're just succeeding at life. Borrowing against your future security for a bit of flash now is shortsighted and those are the people you see whining about having had a great lifestyle but winding up broke the second their job situation turned south.
Let me break it down. Atlanta is very superficial. People do judge you by the type of vehicle you drive and their perception of your wealth. There are so many people walking around looking like barbie dolls who are incapable of forming an intelligent thought or opinion (hence the lack of engaging, intelligent conversation) but feel they are somebody now that they took their funds from their $15 an hour job and bought a Mercedes. People live way beyond their means on a regular basis trying to impress people. Here's the thing that intelligent people understand .....the outside doesn't verify the inside. Ohhhhh. Truth.
I go agree that Atlanta has that new money culture attitude. For those of you who don't know, it's the mentality of flashiness for those people who never had any type of money or success. Old money has the history and advantage of being accustomed to the finer things therefore the flashiness is not necessary. It's why "new money" shows up with a watch on that looks like a walking chandelier with diamonds everywhere. Old money will show up in nice tailored clothing with a Patek Philippe watch.
People in Atlanta have officially caught the vapors. So many people's finances are bad because they are insecure about who they are, being loved for who they are, and are chasing the acceptance of others through the "acquiring" of material possesions to prove to others they are worthy of others approval or acceptance. The reality: you are a walking financial nightmare if you don't put your financial priorities in order. Anyone who forms relationships (friendship or otherwise) with someone who does not understand the importance of: living below your means, investing to create wealth, and money management (so you can have money to ENJOY life and prepare for your future) is retarded. Everyone is trying to keep up with the Joneses in Atlanta.
Jay-Z said it best: you can go to school but you can't buy class. Etiquette rule: name dropping is considered done in poor taste.
It's so bad that people can't hold a decent conversation half the time without being phoney. I sometimes break social norm and make people feel uncomfortable by informing them: "I didn't ask you how much money you make." They don't know what to say.
I've known people myself that had cars that worked fine but they are interested in getting in debt for another vehicle so they can have some perceived standard of wealth in others eyes. Low self esteem is a hard pill to swallow.
You would think in this economy when people have lost jobs, 6 figure salaries, lost their homes, and their lives have been ripped apart financially that the need to live within your financial means would be paramount for everyone.
Is it lonely up there on that high horse?
Although, there are several points I agree with, I don't think that the problem is somehow based or based solely in Atlanta. I live in Buckhead and frequent a few 'upmarket' establishments. It's the exception, not the norm to see pretentious displays of wealth.
Also I know several people who could be described as 'Barbie Dolls,' one being my very best friend actually, who are incredibly smart. One should be careful not to label another so quickly on how they appear or are perceived.
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..real talk. 
