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Old 06-12-2012, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,177 posts, read 16,180,310 times
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Quote:
What it has done is attract more white people.

I'd be proud of that too
Pretty sure I just got bashed for posting this article. I am proud for the achievements and enjoy the diversity of the zip code.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:16 PM
 
7,711 posts, read 9,545,692 times
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Enjoy it while you can.

The metric shows it's getting LESS diverse by the day.

BTW, I'm not bashing you. Just admit that the metic is completely useless and meaningless. Or admit that more white people makes an area better. Which is it?
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:36 PM
Box
 
382 posts, read 535,852 times
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Wow...well this debate certainly got lively. But I do think that economics and race do tend to go hand in hand. While people may not be found of living near people who are working class or low income (although i can't see why folks would think this way, maybe its because I come from a neighborhoods that have had folks who are low to moderate income and I dont see anything wrong with these kinds of neighborhoods), economics and race does tend to go hand in hand, especially in Atlanta where there tends to be a huge wealth disparity between people of color and white people.

Do folks not see how it can be insulting to people that a lot of these areas which couldn't receive any attention or help 10 or 20 years ago because the folks there were working folks, are all of a sudden hot spots where folks openly talk about getting rid of the folks who have lived in their communities because they don't fit the "image" that folks who move into ATL want their new neighborhoods to project? While a lot of folks don't see it, anytime there is gentrification there usually is a disconnect between the folks who are moving in and the folks who have lived there, especially when the folk who have been living there are disregarded as being in the way of "progress" because they don't make a certain income, or the way in which they live may not be how some of the folks who have moved in are accustomed to living (ie for example having extended family living in a home).

But I'm glad that folks are having this conversation, this is certainly a step in the right direction.
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:48 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,488,502 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
Wow...well this debate certainly got lively. But I do think that economics and race do tend to go hand in hand. While people may not be found of living near people who are working class or low income (although i can't see why folks would think this way, maybe its because I come from a neighborhoods that have had folks who are low to moderate income and I dont see anything wrong with these kinds of neighborhoods), economics and race does tend to go hand in hand, especially in Atlanta where there tends to be a huge wealth disparity between people of color and white people.

Do folks not see how it can be insulting to people that a lot of these areas which couldn't receive any attention or help 10 or 20 years ago because the folks there were working folks, are all of a sudden hot spots where folks openly talk about getting rid of the folks who have lived in their communities because they don't fit the "image" that folks who move into ATL want their new neighborhoods to project? While a lot of folks don't see it, anytime there is gentrification there usually is a disconnect between the folks who are moving in and the folks who have lived there, especially when the folk who have been living there are disregarded as being in the way of "progress" because they don't make a certain income, or the way in which they live may not be how some of the folks who have moved in are accustomed to living (ie for example having extended family living in a home).

But I'm glad that folks are having this conversation, this is certainly a step in the right direction.

Here is the bottom line:

1. These places were neglected because the tax base left the area due to the high incomes leaving. White or black the money left and now it wants to come back.

2. White people can't help it if they happen to have higher incomes that makes a nieghborhood safe and desirable. If a black person doesn't like that they need to do what they need to do to get to that level (legally).
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Old 06-12-2012, 03:55 PM
Box
 
382 posts, read 535,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post
Here is the bottom line:

1. These places were neglected because the tax base left the area due to the high incomes leaving. White or black the money left and now it wants to come back.
And do you think that this is right?

And do you think that that's right? Also, your second statement seems to be part of the problem. It's not the folks who live there are lazy or don't want to get ahead, but many of the institutional barriers which are in place make it very difficult for people to advance, especially with the loss of jobs that have traditionally been held by working class people. But again to digress, do you believe that people who do not have high incomes deserve safe neighborhoods?
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:01 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,488,502 times
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Originally Posted by Box View Post
And do you think that this is right?

And do you think that that's right? Also, your second statement seems to be part of the problem. It's not the folks who live there are lazy or don't want to get ahead, but many of the institutional barriers which are in place make it very difficult for people to advance, especially with the loss of jobs that have traditionally been held by working class people. But again to digress, do you believe that people who do not have high incomes deserve safe neighborhoods?
1. Do I think what is right? People can move wherever they want.

2. Everyone should have a safe neighborhood but this is the real world. It is just a known fact that people im middle and high incomes don't commit as many property or violent crimes on people they don't know. It is not a matter or "derserving". It is a matter of people wanting to be safe.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:06 PM
Box
 
382 posts, read 535,852 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post
1. Do I think what is right? People can move wherever they want.

2. Everyone should have a safe neighborhood but this is the real world. It is just a known fact that people im middle and high incomes don't commit as many property or violent crimes on people they don't know. It is not a matter or "derserving". It is a matter of people wanting to be safe.
And what makes neighborhoods safer when people with higher incomes move in? You're right everyone should have a safe neighborhood, but why weren't these issues being addressed and tackled years ago before the new wave of folks who are now in Atlanta moved in? Yeah they have more money which contributes to the tax base, but so what? Also, you're right people can move wherever they want, but they should respect the neighborhood that they're moving into by not looking down on folks who aren't pulling in large incomes or living according to their standard of living.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:10 PM
 
7,711 posts, read 9,545,692 times
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Quote:
And what makes neighborhoods safer when people with higher incomes move in?
Onthemove2014 just said why.

Because people with higher incomes tend to commit fewer property and violent crimes. Therefore, their neighborhoods are de facto safer.

They also tend to be more educated, thus they hold elected officials and law enforcement more accountable and are more likely to organize neighborhood watch programs and have security alarms and surveillance systems.

There is a slew of reasons why higher income areas tend to, overall, have less crime.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:14 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,488,502 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Box View Post
And what makes neighborhoods safer when people with higher incomes move in? You're right everyone should have a safe neighborhood, but why weren't these issues being addressed and tackled years ago before the new wave of folks who are now in Atlanta moved in? Yeah they have more money which contributes to the tax base, but so what? Also, you're right people can move wherever they want, but they should respect the neighborhood that they're moving into by not looking down on folks who aren't pulling in large incomes or living according to their standard of living.

Replacing low income people with middle and high income is addressing the issue. I don't understand why you wont accept the fact that low income people grouped together has a higher likilyhood to breed crime.
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Old 06-12-2012, 04:16 PM
Box
 
382 posts, read 535,852 times
Reputation: 227
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Onthemove2014 just said why.

Because people with higher incomes tend to commit fewer property and violent crimes. Therefore, their neighborhoods are de facto safer.

They also tend to be more educated, thus they hold elected officials and law enforcement more accountable and are more likely to organize neighborhood watch programs and have security alarms and surveillance systems.

There is a slew of reasons why higher income areas tend to, overall, have less crime.
I feel you on being able to take better security systems and surveillance systems, but I've known plenty of low income neighborhoods with neighborhood watches, and where people have constantly gone to councilmen/city hall in order to get things done. Hell, I always hear about community organizations asking for the city of Atlanta to address crimes, but a lot of times their requests are still ignored. But folks wanting to get rid of people with lower incomes, as opposed to individuals which pose a threat to the communities is one reason why there's a lot of tension between gentrifiers and long time residents.
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