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Old 06-12-2012, 05:42 PM
 
7,710 posts, read 9,562,945 times
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And if they are homeowners and decide to leave, the gentrifiers have made it so they can sell their property for much more than they could have had the place stayed poor.

With all that money, they can go buy a great big place in a new poor neighborhood where they can go live with other poor people if that's what they decide to do.

This argument seems ridiculous to me, though. It would be like saying even though they increase property values, gay people shouldn't gentrify neighborhoods because they may clash culturally with the straight people who are already living there. I have never, not once in my life, heard anyone utter, "I wish those freaking gay people would stop moving in all around me and raising my property value so much!"

What would Decatur be today had it not been for the lesbians of the 80s and 90s?
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:43 PM
 
7,710 posts, read 9,562,945 times
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Quote:
I take offense to it.
Take as much offense as you want.

Go argue with the numbers, not me.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:44 PM
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382 posts, read 536,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
And if they are homeowners and decide to leave, the gentrifiers have made it so they can sell their property for much more than they could have had the place stayed poor.

With all that money, they can go buy a great big place in a new poor neighborhood where they can go live with other poor people if that's what they decide to do.

This argument seems ridiculous to me, though. It would be like saying even though they increase property values, gay people shouldn't gentrify neighborhoods because they may clash culturally with the straight people who are already living there. I have never, not once in my life, heard anyone utter, "I wish those freaking gay people would stop moving in all around me and raising my property value so much!"

What would Decatur be today had it not been for the lesbians of the 80s and 90s?
Im not saying people shouldn't move into these neighborhoods, what I'm saying is that there seems to be a lack of respect (for some people, not everyone mind you) for the people who have been living there, because they don't fit into a certain demographic.
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:46 PM
 
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Describe the lack of respect.

Are the people taunting the poor people? Are they pulling Eric Cartmans and saying why don't you move out, you poor piece of trash?

Exactly what are they doing to these people besides raising their property values and improving their schools?
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Old 06-12-2012, 05:51 PM
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382 posts, read 536,412 times
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Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Describe the lack of respect.

Are the people taunting the poor people? Are they pulling Eric Cartmans and saying why don't you move out, you poor piece of trash?

Exactly what are they doing to these people besides raising their property values and improving their schools?
Well for instance how people on this board are always so eager to gentrify and get rid of the "bad elements" ie folks who don't fit into the demographic that they're comfortable with. Also, like i said before not to mention the cultural issues which often time arises, ie racial profiling (which yes is nothing new in Atlanta, but often times gets worse when the city starts to feel like they have something to protect), misunderstandings between neighbors (ie people not being use to how neighborhoods have traditionally operated, ie like i said before folks getting mad because some families may have extended families living in their homes because it doesn't fit their image of what they want their neighborhood to be, or getting mad at a mechanic who may fix cars in his yard because they dont like how that makes the neighborhood look).
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:03 PM
 
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All of your arguments are non-sensical aside from the mechanic one.

When people talk about getting rid of "bad elements" they are talking about getting rid of crackheads and non-compliant mentally instable people who refuse to take their meds. I don't think that crackheads and wandering nutjobs are part of how the neighborhood "traditionally operated."

What kind of racial profiling are you talking about? Do the high income people come out and shout racial slurs at their minority neighbors? Do they burn crosses in their yards? Do they threaten their children? I think you are imagining this much more than it actually happens.

You do have a point with neighbors getting upset with a mechanic fixing cars in his yard. But it's the kind of thing they can't do anything about anyway. If it is already illegal to do, they can complain to authorities. In that case, the guy never should have been doing it to begin with and you can't get mad at new residents enforcing rules that have always been on the books. If it's not illegal, there's nothing the new residents can do but nicely ask the mechanic to please not do it. If he tells them to f-off, there's really nothing more they can do about it. All they can do is try to make it illegal, at which time the mechanic can go offer his say on why it should not be made illegal and then the city council can decide.

But honestly, if you're a mechanic, you should be fixing cars in your garage, or at least in your driveway...not in your yard. And I don't think most people care about a mechanic who fixes cars during the day. I think they care more about the guy who isn't a real mechanic and has a jacked up car in his yard for weeks at a time but never actually fixes it.

I think you'r grasping at straws trying to invent strife where none exists.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:12 PM
 
28,170 posts, read 24,722,232 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
So when something as ridiculous as how many white people live in an area being a measure of how gentrified a neighborhood is, you are all over it, but anytime race is ever brought up in other threads, people are instantly racist for talking about things that have nothing to do with race.

Hmmmm.......

Let's get this straight right here, right now: Does the number of white people who live in an area indicate how nice or gentrified the neighborhood is?
I agree. It's ridiculous and insulting for that author to measure gentrification by the number of white people moving into in a neighborhood. Gentrification is about fixing up neglected homes, improving schools and parks, bringing in solid retail and helping to make the community safer.

People of all races are equally capable of doing this and in fact they do it all the time.
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Old 06-12-2012, 06:13 PM
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382 posts, read 536,412 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
All of your arguments are non-sensical aside from the mechanic one.

When people talk about getting rid of "bad elements" they are talking about getting rid of crackheads and non-compliant mentally instable people who refuse to take their meds. I don't think that crackheads and wandering nutjobs are part of how the neighborhood "traditionally operated."

What kind of racial profiling are you talking about? Do the high income people come out and shout racial slurs at their minority neighbors? Do they burn crosses in their yards? Do they threaten their children? I think you are imagining this much more than it actually happens.

You do have a point with neighbors getting upset with a mechanic fixing cars in his yard. But it's the kind of thing they can't do anything about anyway. If it is already illegal to do, they can complain to authorities. In that case, the guy never should have been doing it to begin with and you can't get mad at new residents enforcing rules that have always been on the books. If it's not illegal, there's nothing the new residents can do but nicely ask the mechanic to please not do it. If he tells them to f-off, there's really nothing more they can do about it. All they can do is try to make it illegal, at which time the mechanic can go offer his say on why it should not be made illegal and then the city council can decide.

But honestly, if you're a mechanic, you should be fixing cars in your garage, or at least in your driveway...not in your yard. And I don't think most people care about a mechanic who fixes cars during the day. I think they care more about the guy who isn't a real mechanic and has a jacked up car in his yard for weeks at a time but never actually fixes it.

I think you'r grasping at straws trying to invent strife where none exists.
I'm giving examples of my own personal experiences where I've heard about people complaining about extended family living in one home. Also, I was speaking more along the lines of profiling on the part of the city trying to protect these neighborhoods (see stop and frisk in nyc for example) for new residents. But I'm done wasting my time, it's kind of clear a lot of people won't be able to see these issues since they won't be the ones affected by them.
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Old 06-12-2012, 07:46 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA
1,262 posts, read 2,448,250 times
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My, isn't this lively!

I think what ATLTJL is other than code enforcement, what are the new people doing to the existing population to make them leave? I honestly believe that as long as they are good people and keep their home tidy, I doubt anyone would say a word or complaint. Often the people moving in are white, but are however quite liberal and are much more accepting of other racial and social sects.
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Old 06-12-2012, 08:30 PM
 
Location: Decatur
461 posts, read 901,358 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Atlanta was majority white before white flight scared the majority of white people to the suburbs. I know that 30317 the older residents welcome the new comers, as 30317 is not like Oakhurst in alienating those that came before and braved the storm, see:Oakhurst Community and Safety in City of Decatur.

I was not in Atlanta the, but talk with the older residents about this phenomena. They tell stories that blow my mind too. It is amazing how far 30317 has came within 10 years.

Kirkwood is the same as Oakhurst, just about 6-7 year behind. Badmouthing your neighbors shouldn't make you feel better about where you choose to live, or somehow superior. Also, the Oakhurst thread you linked is one person's point of view, one sad disgruntled person who has a skewed view of reality.
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