U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Closed Thread Start New Thread
 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:04 PM
 
Location: ATL by way of Los Angeles
845 posts, read 1,154,697 times
Reputation: 610

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post
I realize the burbs aren't the same density everywhere. Hence why I said "low density burbs ".

Yeah, a kid in those places wouldn't know any better, but that doesn't mean they don't miss out on that social growing up experience. Looking back I see I did.

I know I'm not the only one either. I think it's healthy to be that social growing up and to be surrounded by neighborhood kids that you can grow up with and actually be able do stuff with without a car.
Honestly, having lived in various environments I don't see where the kids that grew up the type of 'burbs that you were describing really missed out. It sounds like you have some personal issues with your upbringing that you may need to address offline.

Everything is relative. A kid in the country probably thinks that kids in the city are "missing out" by not being able to hunt and fish locally. A kid in the suburbs may think that kids in the city are "missing out" on having a newer school or a newer subdivision. A kid in an apartment complex may be glad that they don't have to mow the lawn or clean the gutters like the kids in houses. A kid that has access to the bus and train may still wish that their parents were able to drive them instead of having to sit at the bus stop.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Although there may be a few others that may share your same views, there are definitely others that would have traded places with you in a minute. When I was a teen, I wanted to go to a "cooler" high school in the city because I thought that it was too dull where I was. After spending a couple of summers in the hood (97th and Avalon, to be exact) and going to sleep to the sounds of helicopters, gunshots, and sirens, I realized that my school and neighborhood weren't so bad after all. The local high school over there may have been "cooler" to some and had more name recognition, but you had to walk through four different gang hoods to get there. Although I considered myself to be very "street smart", that is no way to voluntarily live.

 
Old 06-26-2012, 02:50 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,533,448 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big L View Post
Honestly, having lived in various environments I don't see where the kids that grew up the type of 'burbs that you were describing really missed out. It sounds like you have some personal issues with your upbringing that you may need to address offline.

Everything is relative. A kid in the country probably thinks that kids in the city are "missing out" by not being able to hunt and fish locally. A kid in the suburbs may think that kids in the city are "missing out" on having a newer school or a newer subdivision. A kid in an apartment complex may be glad that they don't have to mow the lawn or clean the gutters like the kids in houses. A kid that has access to the bus and train may still wish that their parents were able to drive them instead of having to sit at the bus stop.

The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Although there may be a few others that may share your same views, there are definitely others that would have traded places with you in a minute. When I was a teen, I wanted to go to a "cooler" high school in the city because I thought that it was too dull where I was. After spending a couple of summers in the hood (97th and Avalon, to be exact) and going to sleep to the sounds of helicopters, gunshots, and sirens, I realized that my school and neighborhood weren't so bad after all. The local high school over there may have been "cooler" to some and had more name recognition, but you had to walk through four different gang hoods to get there. Although I considered myself to be very "street smart", that is no way to voluntarily live.
lol, don't try to pin this off as some personal "issues" . What a cop out.
I experienced it shortly as I had cousins who grew up in South Florida with that experience and I spent summers down there. It was so much fun and refreshing to be able to walk out the door and meet the neighborhood kids or go chill at a one of his friends house, or walk to the stores with the groups of kids or barbershops or hop on one of the frequent buses to another part of town see a girl or another group of friends the hop on the bus to the mall.

They didn't have as much money or junk as I did but I can tell they had way more fun then I did sitting at home and only seeing my friends a few times a month when we got a ride. Just being kids.

I'll say the downside is wondering if your home is the "hang out house" when you're at work but you gotta trust your kids and raise em right. Can't keep a eye on them 24/7.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 03:21 PM
 
8,284 posts, read 10,220,858 times
Reputation: 6400
Where did they live in South Florida?

You know, most of the Dade and Broward area isn't what you would really call an urban area. It's also not known for transit.

I'm trying to figure out where you were...nobody lives downtown. Coconut Grove is the only place I can think of that sort of fits the bill.

There are plenty of downsides. I lived in south Miami. I hope your cousins turned out okay, but it's really a minority of students in South Florida that don't experiment heavily with drugs before they graduate. And I'm not just talking about smoking pot. There's a lot of trouble that's very easy to get into down there, one of trade offs of the kind of lifestyle you are talkign about.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 04:16 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,533,448 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Where did they live in South Florida?

You know, most of the Dade and Broward area isn't what you would really call an urban area. It's also not known for transit.

I'm trying to figure out where you were...nobody lives downtown. Coconut Grove is the only place I can think of that sort of fits the bill.

There are plenty of downsides. I lived in south Miami. I hope your cousins turned out okay, but it's really a minority of students in South Florida that don't experiment heavily with drugs before they graduate. And I'm not just talking about smoking pot. There's a lot of trouble that's very easy to get into down there, one of trade offs of the kind of lifestyle you are talkign about.
Most cities have "suburbs" but it's been explained that some are more urban and have better transit. Virginia highlands,Decatur and all the other intown areas we are talking about are suburbs too, just intown suburbs. The areas we were in were in Hollywood, FT Lauderdale, Lauderhill, and Plantation areas mostly. They aren't Manhattan urban but they are much denser and easier to get around in then the most of the burbs in say Duluth or Buford. South Florida in general is just not as sprawled. Nowhere to really sprawl. Probably similar to what the other guy was saying about SOCal's burbs being dense and close to other stuff.

Most of these places are around 30 min from Miami. As far a transit South Florida has a very good bus system that is probably very similar to intown areas here. I know people turn their noses at buses but as a kid or teenager all you care about it getting to where you are going. As far as crime and drugs go, we didn't get into any of that when I was there. Pot was smoked but I mean seriously, you are in a fantasy world if you think the suburban kids around Atlanta don't do drugs or drink heavily. I am still young enough to know what those kids do or did around here listening to them and you would be shocked .I don't think urbanity has anything to do with drug use. I am not suggesting anyone more to South Florida either unless you have money.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 04:34 PM
 
8,284 posts, read 10,220,858 times
Reputation: 6400
You are comparing apples to oranges in certain ways.

An area like South Florida is going to have much better access to things like transportation and density because it is largely a tourist area. Just like if you live in a place like Orlando, there are going to be safe buses everywhere and tons of things to do if you live in a touristy part of town. Pretty much all of South Florida is touristy.

I don't know how things are in Broward county, but in south Miami drug use was insane. A lot of kids didn't even have to do any work, they just swiped cocaine from their parents. In some cases, it was given to them. It's not just a stereotype, the drug trade and drug use in Miami is utterly and completely insane.

I'm sure there are drugs in suburban Atlanta as well, but no way on earth is the access as easy.

I'd raise my kids in Plantation, Hollywood, or Ft. Laudedale about as fast as I'd raise them in Beirut.
 
Old 06-26-2012, 05:23 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,533,448 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
You are comparing apples to oranges in certain ways.

An area like South Florida is going to have much better access to things like transportation and density because it is largely a tourist area. Just like if you live in a place like Orlando, there are going to be safe buses everywhere and tons of things to do if you live in a touristy part of town. Pretty much all of South Florida is touristy.

I don't know how things are in Broward county, but in south Miami drug use was insane. A lot of kids didn't even have to do any work, they just swiped cocaine from their parents. In some cases, it was given to them. It's not just a stereotype, the drug trade and drug use in Miami is utterly and completely insane.

I'm sure there are drugs in suburban Atlanta as well, but no way on earth is the access as easy.

I'd raise my kids in Plantation, Hollywood, or Ft. Laudedale about as fast as I'd raise them in Beirut.
I am not sure how the drug issue in South Florida has anything to do with density or dense amenity rich suburbs unless you argument is that places like the ones I am describing are all drug ridden or prone to drugs. Please explain.

Also, what does tourism have to do with dense suburbs where kids can meet and hang out with cars? Especially considering how sprawled Orlando is and how FT Lauderdale isn't really a tourist spot like Miam or South Beach,

Last edited by Onthemove2014; 06-26-2012 at 05:33 PM..
 
Old 06-26-2012, 07:42 PM
 
3,972 posts, read 11,049,487 times
Reputation: 1428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fritz99 View Post
Finally someone mentioned the real reason certain schools are considered great. It is the demographics. Nothing magical happens with the teacher, facilities or materials. A new set of higher income and more involved parents move into the area. Any school can turn around if you replace the students. People always say (myself included) that they want their child to go to 'X' great school to get a good education, but aren't you really wanting your child to go to a school with a certain demographic of students and parents who are going to excel in any environment you put them? I would think that the teachers are all teaching the same curriculum or does this vary by school? Maybe it does, but I would not think it should.
You would think that, but it isn't reality. Involved parents, those who understand what a school should be doing, end up with better schools. DeKalb is the poster child for this. It is clear that different things are happening in the schools that educate a primarily poor population vs those that educate a mostly affluent population. The curriculum is the same, the materials are the same, and as a Title 1 school, the poor schools may actually more resources, but there are generally not as experienced teachers, and in DeKalb often the friends and family approach to principals. It is a shame that the school board reps for those areas are primarily concerned about jobs and not children.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
Well, I know the last time the E-SPLOST was up for a vote by me, the comment by the school board was basically "if it doesn't pass, we'll just have to raise property taxes to make up the shortfall". That funding is a pretty significant portion of the overall operating budget in many counties, especially as the state has cut the amount of funding they provide. The school boards will get that funding one way or the other.....
E-SPLOST can only be used for capital improvements -- not day to day operation. If an E-SPLOST fails, property taxes go up, because part of the deal with E-SPLOST is that if a system has one, property taxes are lowered.
 
Old 06-27-2012, 06:00 AM
 
Location: Grant Park, Atlanta
54 posts, read 50,091 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I honestly haven't seen threads like that. There seems to be some tension between a handful of young posters who are gung ho about city living, as well as handful of others who seem to think the city is a dangerous place full of awful people and bad schools.
Hmm...I've only become more active recently and I've read quite a bit. And yes, there are a few who hold fundamental views, who--unfortunately--seem to be the most vocal in this discourse.

Quote:
Personally I've always felt it was an individual choice. You can make either one work, although you will likely make some adjustments either way.
Absolutely! However when folks decide that leaving the core is there only choice, they are based for "depleting the urban core" and "contributing to sprawl.'

Quote:
I do think there's a lot of misinformation and misapprehension about how "good" schools are. For one thing, not all suburbs and suburban schools are equal. Typically those regarded as being in "good" school districts are pricier, just as they are intown.
Yes, and no. I do believe there is "misinformation"...yet this often comes from folks who when folks decide not to live somewhere "transitioning" they are being unrealistic. And once more, there are some suburban schools I wouldn't send my dog to. Yet, there are some (eg. Peachtree City] that have AMAZING SCHOOLS and reasonable real estate.

Quote:
Take Toomer, the “up and coming” school we’ve been talking about in the other thread.
And as a parent with school age children, "up and coming" is not necessarily "good." There are examples of HUNDREDS of "up and coming" charter schools throughout the country that were "good" on the surface, and abysmal upon deeper investigation.

Quote:
You can find scores of similar examples. If you want to see another terrific “up and coming” intown school in an affordable neighborhood check out Bolton Academy.
Ironically, that's on my list for next week! I'll let you know how it goes.
 
Old 06-27-2012, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Grant Park, Atlanta
54 posts, read 50,091 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
The thing is, that's a chicken and the egg situation. If you want to improve intown schools, move to the city. That's exactly how great intown schools such as Mary Lin, Morningside, Smith, SPARK, etc., were created. People decided to live in those areas and put their kids in public schools. And the results have been dramatic and rapid.

That's precisely the way good schools are created in the suburbs, too.
Ok...so what happens during the time that the schools are "improving?"
 
Old 06-27-2012, 06:09 AM
 
Location: Grant Park, Atlanta
54 posts, read 50,091 times
Reputation: 19
Quote:
Originally Posted by ericsonga View Post
Well for me, it's a bit different than most everyone else. My partner and I would like to have kids in the future (next five years or so). We still own a beautiful home in the Brookwood cluster in Gwinnett. I love the area, my neighborhood, and the schools are excellent. However, I'm not sure how my kids would be accepted coming from a home with 2 dads. I know a few gay couples with their kids in the North Atlanta cluster (Smith and Brandon Elem) and they have been received very very well. My inclination is to stay in Buckhead where we moved to provide the best enviroment for our children. In all honesty, the suburban life didn't bother me in the least though.
That is an issue that really need to be at the table. I did not a few same-sex couples who needed to leave their suburban school district due to the aforementioned concerns you addressed. Similarly, my husband and I are black (Haitian/African-American) and are very concerned about diversity in the school. Just because a place looks good on paper, it doesn't conclude that it will be a good fit (socially) for ones kid.

Hence, one of the issues with the "transiting schools": There is a social element that might run incongruous to one's lifestyle.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Closed Thread


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:11 PM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top