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Old 07-04-2012, 06:29 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,622,710 times
Reputation: 903

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Quote:
Originally Posted by atltechdude View Post
Nope, he's not a socialist. A socialist would have nationalized the banks during the financial crisis just like most of Europe did. Instead he got Wall Street right back to where they were with minimal changes, and now they want a man who will roll back even the meager protections that were put in place to try and hedge against their future bouts of unrestrained greed and the risk it poses to our financial system.
The "unrestrained greed" was a result of government becoming involved in the free market banking system in the first place. Government is going to fix a problem that they created to begin with? Yay! More layers of government bureaucracy and regulation are going to save us all!

When is the government going to step in and "Fix" the greedy colleges that are creating student debt? That is another perfect example of the government becoming involved and totally f-ing up a system that wasn't broken. I can't wait for them to step in and "fix" this situation while demonizing everyone but the root cause; governmental interference.
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Old 07-04-2012, 06:56 PM
 
731 posts, read 648,110 times
Reputation: 328
I think gtcorndog needs a hug
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Old 07-04-2012, 07:51 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,454,181 times
Reputation: 1722
What I don't get about the ultra super conservatives like gtcorndog that keep going on and on and on about how American civilization is going to he11 in a handbasket because of liberals promoting big government Is they don't offer any solution other than this pie in the sky notion that if we cut government and taxes all our woes will disappear and everything will fall into place.

What I don't understand about this is our biggest problem is our economy. In the end it sucks because we allowed our manufacturing base to fall apart due to lack of competitiveness etc and that has been happening for decades now. No amount of spuring the economy along with gimmicks like increased real estate activity through lowered interest rates could fix this (as evidenced by the housing market collapse)

This is what I'm saying. Big government didn't make GM, Ford and Chrysler become arrogant and complacent so that they allowed Japanese and German automakers to take over the American market. Low taxation would not prevented them from having none caring attitude towards quality and fuel economy but when they failed it hurt the entire U.S. economy in more ways than most people know.

Big government didn't put our textile and apparel industry under. Even if they got rid of taxation they still could not have competed with low wages in Asian countries.

Big government tried to help keep the ship building industry here but due to unfair trade practices in Japan and corporate methods over there that would be highly illegal here (both conservatives and liberals agree with the antitrust laws that keep massive unfair conglomerates like the ones in Japan from existing here.) the american ship building industry is just about extinct.

The American aerospace industry is hurting now not because of big government but because now they have stiff competition from overseas when it comes to providing carriers to airliners and before they were top dog by them self. This is not big governments fault it's just is what it is. Low taxes wouldn't have helped Boeing design planes better and cheaper only hard work innovation and smarts can do that. Also the aerospace industry in America had a hard time adjusting to the end of the cold war and the lack of huge military contracts they used to receive. Are you going to blame big government on the downsizing of the American military as well?

Also Silicon Valley took a hit when Japan entered the microchip business. Big government had nothing to do with that. The Japanese are just good at making microchips.

Are you going to blame big government for our machine tool industry almost disappearing because they were taxed, when the competitors that put them under in Japan and Germany also pay as high if not higher taxes in their countries? Or do you think we should go the route of China and compete with them by paying ridiculously low wages to our highly skilled tool makers?

You probably think we would be better off just letting manufacturing die since it fits in with the conservative doctrine of survival of the fittest but not so sure we have that option. A modern economy that doesn't have have a healthy manufacturing base is extremely hard to pull off. No manufacturing equals low value exports and with a consumer oriented economy like America that means big trade imbalance because we will still import lots of goods. Trade imbalances actually help keep the deficit high by driving down the value of treasury notes we sell to foreign investors.

These are the types of questions that I never see ultra conservatives even attempt to answer. But it is these issues that will decide the future economy and quality of life of Americans.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:08 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,622,710 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Man View Post
I think gtcorndog needs a hug
No hugs needed. I am just fine and am well insulated from these poor governmental decisions because I have worked hard and made good decisions. The country can continue it's decline into a socialist welfare state and I'll be fine because I am not dependent on the government to provide for my basic needs. It does pain me to see a country that was built on hard work an innovation become a country of "poor me" and "how can the government help me." However, at the end of the day, I've made my future and am set, so I have no personal agenda other than the desire to see the country remain a place my kids and grandkids can prosper and build their own futures without relying on the government to solve their problems.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:32 PM
 
731 posts, read 648,110 times
Reputation: 328
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
No hugs needed. I am just fine and am well insulated from these poor governmental decisions because I have worked hard and made good decisions. The country can continue it's decline into a socialist welfare state and I'll be fine because I am not dependent on the government to provide for my basic needs. It does pain me to see a country that was built on hard work an innovation become a country of "poor me" and "how can the government help me." However, at the end of the day, I've made my future and am set, so I have no personal agenda other than the desire to see the country remain a place my kids and grandkids can prosper and build their own futures without relying on the government to solve their problems.
so you dont need roads to drive on? police to make sure your neihborhood is safe? schools and teachers for your kids? traffic signs to make sure your commute is safe? an army to make sure your contry is safe? air traffic controllers to make sure your plane ride is safe?
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:45 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,622,710 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lady's Man View Post
so you dont need roads to drive on? police to make sure your neihborhood is safe? schools and teachers for your kids? traffic signs to make sure your commute is safe? an army to make sure your contry is safe? air traffic controllers to make sure your plane ride is safe?
I don't need the government to provide me food and housing. I don't need the government to fix my mortgage and student loan debt. I am responsible for my life and accountable for the decisions I make.

Those things you posted are great and if that is where government involvement ended, we'd be in a good place and not in a fiscal crisis. Instead, we've seen the addition of social program after social program to fix the problems of the individual to the point where people are dependent on the government for their basic needs. There is a big difference between what you describe and the issues I am describing.
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Old 07-04-2012, 08:53 PM
 
Location: Area 51.5
13,904 posts, read 11,086,483 times
Reputation: 9036
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, W used to go the Varsity sometimes and I never heard any criticism from his prep school, Yale and Harvard academic elite friends. You don't get much closer to royalty in this country than being born into the Bush family.
The Kennedys aren't going to be happy to hear that.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:09 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,155,720 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
The Kennedys aren't going to be happy to hear that.
The Kennedys have fallen from grace. Camelot was filled with flaws.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:25 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,155,720 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
This is what I'm saying. Big government didn't make GM, Ford and Chrysler become arrogant and complacent so that they allowed Japanese and German automakers to take over the American market.
Germans took over? The Japanese achieved the big market shares...not the Germans.

Quote:
Also Silicon Valley took a hit when Japan entered the microchip business. Big government had nothing to do with that. The Japanese are just good at making microchips.
But the Japanese could never take the microprocessor industry. The Japanese also targeted the computer industry in general, did well, but never could knock the US out of the driver's seat.
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Old 07-04-2012, 09:28 PM
 
28,277 posts, read 24,886,716 times
Reputation: 9637
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dale Cooper View Post
The Kennedys aren't going to be happy to hear that.
Well, they're both royalty, although arguably the Bush family's roots run even deeper. Remember, the Bushs have two presidents, two governors, two Senators, a Supreme Court justice, etc. Not only that, the Kennedys had that Irish-American thing to deal with, which wasn't exactly cool at Harvard back in the day.
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