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Old 07-10-2012, 04:51 PM
 
9,124 posts, read 32,132,421 times
Reputation: 3519

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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
I also heard that there is vegetables just rotting on the plant because the immigration law chased off thousands of field workers so there's always that or minimal waged jobs.
Guess we'll need to build a train line to the fields then, huh?
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Old 07-10-2012, 05:45 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,489,247 times
Reputation: 409
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
That car you jump in and drive off in everyday in order to be designed and built took robotics experts, process engineers, electrical engineers, programmers of all kinds, CNC programmers, Material scientist, computer scientist, Die makers, skilled welders, chemical engineers, metallurist, marketing people, accountants, managers of all sorts, technicians of all kinds. BS, BA, PHD degrees of all kinds. Im leaving alot out because I'm in a rush but Boeing in Seattle employees thousands of engineers all with college degrees so does Micro Soft which is a manufacturer too. Manufacturing is so so much more than what people here are giving it credit to be!

And how many of those jobs are day to day in the actual factories? How many of them are off in the headquarters and business centers of the companies home town or elsewhere?

I'd wager most the jobs done by the robotics experts, process engineers, electrical engineers, programmers of all kinds, CNC programmers, Material scientist, computer scientist, Die makers,chemical engineers,marketing people and accountants are done elsewhere or are done before a new car hits the assembly line at the headquarters. Most of the jobs at the actual factories are going to be the Welders, managers, robotics and unskilled assembly folk among other unskilled jobs. You gotta keep in mind that Boeing is headquartered in Seattle as well and Microsoft. There is big difference in the jobs there vs. a plant in the middle of no where Alabama.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:26 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,798 posts, read 11,745,729 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Hold up, people! Hold up!

First of all we can't afford to abandon manufacturing wholesale. As I stated earlier it's an economic fact that most economies can't healthliey sustain themselves with less than say around 16 percent of it's GDP coming from manufacturing. This is due to the need for exportable product as opposed to just importing things and the way manufacturing creates wealth, the way it's high value added etc.


Secondly, there is nothing low education and low skilled about the most valuable manufacturing jobs today. It s so so so much more than the people screwing in nuts and bolts. I thought everyone knew that by now but gee whiz what a ways it seems we have to go enlightening people on this. That car you jump in and drive off in everyday in order to be designed and built took robotics experts, process engineers, electrical engineers, programmers of all kinds, CNC programmers, Material scientist, computer scientist, Die makers, skilled welders, chemical engineers, metallurist, marketing people, accountants, managers of all sorts, technicians of all kinds. BS, BA, PHD degrees of all kinds. Im leaving alot out because I'm in a rush but Boeing in Seattle employees thousands of engineers all with college degrees so does Micro Soft which is a manufacturer too. Manufacturing is so so much more than what people here are giving it credit to be!
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating abandoning manufacturing. I actually believe we would be better off as a country at all levels if we still had a manufacturing base like we had for the first half of the 20th century.

This is a decision though not being made by us, rather it is being made by the thousands of Chinese and other third world factories pumping out all the crap we like to buy. We cannot compete at all with the (slave)wages they pay, the slave like concrete structures their workers live in, or the environmental damage they are doing their countries.

It's time we stopped acting like things will get "back to normal" if we just wished hard enough. Do you really think almost every American company that produces products would take the very significant hit to their profit margins just to make us feel better as a country? Hell, even Apple wouldn't do that and they are as hippie as a country can get. Let

We need to forget the past and make a new future.
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Old 07-10-2012, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,151 posts, read 15,957,344 times
Reputation: 9167
If DahmlerChrysler had not reneged on their plans to build a Sprinter Van plant in Savannah 10 years ago, we wouldn't be having this thread discussion. In case you forgot, here's a link to stories in the Savannah Morning News from a decade ago about the MASSIVE project that would have gone on 1,800 acres adjacent to I-16 and employed THOUSANDS!

I cry every time I drive by that huge empty "Super Site" that sits as a sad reminder of what could have been. Savannah, and Georgia, would be in a different orbit today had this become reality.

Barnes makes DaimlerChrysler announcement official | savannahnow.com | Savannah Morning News
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Old 07-11-2012, 01:00 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,435,153 times
Reputation: 1722
You_are_right_to_a_point._The_HQ_is_where_most_des ign_work_is_done._Most_assembly_plants_do_have_in_ house_production_and_process_engineers,manufacturi ng_engineers,industrial_engineers,_robotic_program ers_plc_programers_skilled_millwrights_,electrical ,plumbing_and_welding_contractors._Not_sure_about_ alabama_but_bmw_spartanburg_has_a_pilot_line_where _prototypes_of_new_models_are_built_for_testing_ye ars_ahead_of_its_production._New_production_method s_and_processes_are_also_tested._This_possibly_req uires_die_designers_and_makers,_and_cnc_programers ._In_conjunction_with_bmw_a_automotive_technical_c enter_has_been_established_at_clemson_university_w here_research_in_automotive_engineering_is_conduct ed._Then_you_have_many_production_managers_as_well _as_shipping_logistic_and_quality.managers.5000_em ployees_all_together_with_an_average_salary_of_$82 000._Thats_30000_more_than_the_median_household_in come_of_the_city_of_Atlanta._Not_exactly_a_bunch_o f_low_skilled_grease_monkeys.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:41 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,435,153 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post
And how many of those jobs are day to day in the actual factories? How many of them are off in the headquarters and business centers of the companies home town or elsewhere?

I'd wager most the jobs done by the robotics experts, process engineers, electrical engineers, programmers of all kinds, CNC programmers, Material scientist, computer scientist, Die makers,chemical engineers,marketing people and accountants are done elsewhere or are done before a new car hits the assembly line at the headquarters. Most of the jobs at the actual factories are going to be the Welders, managers, robotics and unskilled assembly folk among other unskilled jobs. You gotta keep in mind that Boeing is headquartered in Seattle as well and Microsoft. There is big difference in the jobs there vs. a plant in the middle of no where Alabama.
You are right to a point. The HQ is where most design work is done and the largest number of engineers and corporate positions are located there. However, most assembly plants do have in house production and process engineers, manufacturing engineers, industrial engineers, quite a few engineering Interns from local colleges, robotics programers, PLC programers, skilled millwrights ,electrical ,plumbing and welding contractors. Not sure about Alabama but BMW Spartanburg has a pilot line where prototypes of new models are built for testing years ahead of their production. New production methods and processes are also tested on the pilot line. This possibly requires die designers and makers, and CNC programers . In conjunction with BMW an automotive technical center has been established at Clemson university where research in automotive engineering is conducted. Then you have many production managers as well as shipping logistic and quality managers. 5000 employees all together with an average salary of $82000. Thats 30000 more than the median household income of the city of Atlanta. Not exactly a bunch of low skilled grease monkeys.
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Old 07-11-2012, 06:50 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,435,153 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Don't get me wrong, I'm not advocating abandoning manufacturing. I actually believe we would be better off as a country at all levels if we still had a manufacturing base like we had for the first half of the 20th century.

This is a decision though not being made by us, rather it is being made by the thousands of Chinese and other third world factories pumping out all the crap we like to buy. We cannot compete at all with the (slave)wages they pay, the slave like concrete structures their workers live in, or the environmental damage they are doing their countries.

It's time we stopped acting like things will get "back to normal" if we just wished hard enough. Do you really think almost every American company that produces products would take the very significant hit to their profit margins just to make us feel better as a country? Hell, even Apple wouldn't do that and they are as hippie as a country can get. Let

We need to forget the past and make a new future.
Yeah. What's most disheartening to me is not loosing low skilled jobs to low paid workers in places like China but we are actually losing high skilled jobs like CAD operaters, Designers and seasoned Tool Makers out sourced to highly educated but lowly paid workers in India, Russia and other places.

I wouldn't throw in the towel yet however. Japan and Germany are still holding on despite having high income workers. America has simply failed to do many of the things they have done to be competitive. We've also let Japan get away with some unfair trade practices in the past.
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Old 07-11-2012, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,435,153 times
Reputation: 1722
Quote:
Originally Posted by BobKovacs View Post
So what should all of the "dumb" people in the region do, who aren't qualified to work in medical research or IT?

It's not that Atlanta should not focus on manufacturing and focus solely on tech jobs- the region should focus on having a blend of industries so it can weather downturns better. Why do you think a place like Las Vegas went so deep in the toilet recently? Because they were heavily invested in only one industry- gaming. Atlanta's problem is that they were focused so heavily on construction to sustain the people who were moving here just because "people were moving here", and it bit us pretty badly.
Quote:
Atlanta should not focus not manufacturing. We have a growing medical research industry and of course IT. Those states are lower educated and give up millions in incentive's to lure those companies.
Seattle and Denver are booming because they can attract young professionals, creative class, to their cities. The TIA will go a long way in help attracting those people.
Yeah, only dumb, uneducated people work in factories right? Actually, the kind of factories the OP was referring to being built in Alabama now offer jobs that many Georgia Tech grads would be delighted to have.

This Ohio State graduate works at the Honda plant in Marysville Ohio that builds the Honda Accord. Most auto assembly plants have industrial Engineers like him. Tell me. Does he sound dumb?


MyCoolJob: Industrial Engineer - YouTube

The presence of the BMW plant in Greer South Carolina caused the creation of the Clemson University International Center of Automotive Research. It offers Masters and Phd degrees in Automotive Engineering and is partnered with BMW, IBM, and Michelin. It performs automotive research for Ford, BMW, Chevy and other companies. This is the type of thing that high level manufacturing brings about.


Innovation in Education - Clemson University's (CU-ICAR) - YouTube


John Limroth, Ph.D. Student

This video shows Engineers at Volkswagens new Chattanooga, TN plant working out glitches in the high tech paint and robotics systems,


New Volkswagen plant in Chattanooga featured on "How Do They Do It" - YouTube
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Old 07-11-2012, 08:10 AM
 
9,124 posts, read 32,132,421 times
Reputation: 3519
Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
Yeah, only dumb, uneducated people work in factories right? Actually, the kind of factories the OP was referring to being built in Alabama now offer jobs that many Georgia Tech grads would be delighted to have.
Yes, there are some highly-skilled positions in manufacturing plants, but the majority of the positions are still "install lug nut on wheel, tighten with preset impact wrench, wait for next vehicle to come down the line" positions, I'm sorry to say. Several of my family members work in automotive plants, so I'm pretty familiar with what their skillsets are. For every video you can pull off youtube showing an industrial engineer who works in a plant, there are probably 10 showing the lineworkers who don't have to be rocket scientists to do their jobs.

And my comment was made in reference to the previous poster, who said we shouldn't have any manufacturing- just focus on IT and medical research. "Dumb" was in quotes to refer to those who don't have degrees that would get them into the IT or medical fields- it wasn't meant to be a slight.
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Old 07-11-2012, 02:07 PM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 21,919,803 times
Reputation: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by Saintmarks View Post
Thinking that you can't get a good education unless you go to a very wealthy, very white school is a white racist mindset no matter what color your skin is.
It wouldn't be racist if the statistics actually show that correlation to be true, assuming your opinion is based purely on those statistics and not some other set of reasons.

Correlation is not causation, I realize, but sometimes patterns exist for legitimate reasons. It ain't because of genetics, usually, but because of economic/lifestyle trends within certain communities.
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