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Old 07-03-2012, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,282,964 times
Reputation: 4205

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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Is there any proof that being more progressive is better for a state's economy?
One of the few states that has a mostly flat -overall- level of taxation (remember we have a collective mix of flat, progressive, and regressive tax statewide... its the mix of them and how they add up that matters) is California.

California has a large higher education system and it attracts high development companies like none other. It is that mixture of intellectual talent, capital for R&D, and money spent in transportation.

Let me look up a source I use to have and I'll get back to you...
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Old 07-03-2012, 04:58 PM
 
Location: Georgia
1,451 posts, read 1,350,004 times
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People in Georgia do seem to look down on Alabama, but I think it's because we have Atlanta. Doesn't matter about the rest of Georgia. Atlanta is in Georgia. Plain and simple.

Would you say Illinois(Chicago) was the same as Indiana? Heck no!
Would you say North Carolina(Charlotte/Triangle) was the same as South Carolina? I HIGHLY doubt it...

What's not to get?
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:08 PM
 
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California was the example I thought of as well.

And California is virtually bankrupt as a state.
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:16 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,282,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
California was the example I thought of as well.

And California is virtually bankrupt as a state.
Yea when you spend alot of money on social programs, like education, it is harder to readjust for downturns. It is also harder to do politically. Here you can't walk 10 feet and not find someone griping about taxes not being cut.

Anyways... I found the study I was looking for http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf

It spots out how regressive Georgia is overall. It explains, which taxes cause this and what our pros and cons are compared to other states.

http://www.itepnet.org/whopays3.pdf

Georgia Summary:

Income Lowest Second Middle Fourth Top 20%
Group 20% 20% 20% 20% Next 15% Next 4% TOP 1%

Overall 11.7% 11.2% 10.3% 9.7% 8.4% 7.5% 5.7%
avg Rate

They cite:

"Progressive Features:
 -Income tax uses a graduated rate structure
- Provides a refundable low-income tax credit
- State sales tax base excludes groceries

Regressive Features:
 -Narrow income tax brackets mean majority of taxpayers pay top income tax rate
- Fails to index income tax provisions to inflation"
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Old 07-03-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,161 posts, read 15,981,486 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
I have to agree with Roslyn. It has been studied and poorer people spend a higher percentage of their overall income on playing lottery. Someone who is richer doesn't need to play and when they do $1 or $2 to have fun with it is a smaller percentage of their overall income.

It is a voluntary tax, but that doesn't make it progressive or flat.
There's no such thing as a "voluntary tax." Nobody is forcing anybody to play the lottery. But in Alabama, property taxes are the lowest of ANY STATE IN THE NATION! This means rich (WHITE) landowners pay far less proportionally than all the poor (BLACK) Alabamans who must fork over outrageous sales and use taxes, income taxes -- even occupational taxes! There's simply no comparison. Alabamans can pretend they're just as progressive as other booming Sunbelt states, or that Georgia is "just as backward as us" (which is kinda like calling your sister ugly). But history and NUMBERS prove time and again it is not true.

I like Alabama -- I really do! I just couldn't afford to live there, after moving from Metro Atlanta, because I earned more than a third LESS than I did in Georgia and brought home barely half of that due to the outrageous taxes and other deductions I had to pay. My rent was pretty cheap, but utility costs were off the charts compared to Georgia, but that might be because I refused to live in a trailer like most of my coworkers (one third of all housing units in Alabama are mobile homes).

My sister and her husband moved to Tuscaloosa last year after living most all their lives in Metro Atlanta. While they like it, they also express frustration at times about how different things are -- something as simple as finding a decent grocery store has been a challenge to them. My sister's inlaws live in Gadsden, and while they are super sweet people, even they recognize that Georgia and Alabama are culturally different. I'm not saying South Georgia doesn't have small towns or cities LIKE you'd find in Alabama, but by and large the pace of life and culEture of the two states IS DIFFERENT! And that's mostly due to the enormous influence Atlanta has over our entire state, and to a lesser extent Savannah.

Last edited by Newsboy; 07-03-2012 at 07:56 PM..
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:42 PM
 
27,834 posts, read 24,901,772 times
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This is essentially about Georgia outside of metro ATL and Alabama. Not really too much difference here.

I don't really think that big manufacturers should constitute the benchmark of economic progress here. NC doesn't have a big car or aerospace plant, or even a major port, and I'd say overall it's doing fine.
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Old 07-03-2012, 08:56 PM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta, GA
444 posts, read 783,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Newsboy View Post
There's no such thing as a "voluntary tax." Nobody is forcing anybody to play the lottery. But in Alabama, property taxes are the lowest of ANY STATE IN THE NATION! This means rich (WHITE) landowners pay far less proportionally than all the poor (BLACK) Alabamans who must fork over outrageous sales and use taxes, income taxes -- even occupational taxes! There's simply no comparison. Alabamans can pretend they're just as progressive as other booming Sunbelt states, or that Georgia is "just as backward as us" (which is kinda like calling your sister ugly). But history and NUMBERS prove time and again it is not true.

I like Alabama -- I really do! I just couldn't afford to live there, after moving from Metro Atlanta, because I earned more than a third LESS than I did in Georgia and brought home barely half of that due to the outrageous taxes and other deductions I had to pay. My rent was pretty cheap, but utility costs were off the charts compared to Georgia, but that might be because I refused to live in a trailer like most of my coworkers (one third of all housing units in Alabama are mobile homes).

My sister and her husband moved to Tuscaloosa last year after living most all their lives in Metro Atlanta. While they like it, they also express frustration at times about how different things are -- something as simple as finding a decent grocery store has been a challenge to them. My sister's inlaws live in Gadsden, and while they are super sweet people, even they recognize that Georgia and Alabama are culturally different. I'm not saying South Georgia doesn't have small towns or cities LIKE you'd find in Alabama, but by and large the pace of life and culEture of the two states IS DIFFERENT! And that's mostly due to the enormous influence Atlanta has over our entire state, and to a lesser extent Savannah.
As someone who has spent most of his life in Georgia, but who attended college in Alabama, I have to agree with this assessment 100%. Yes Georgia does have the Atlanta and Savannah influence going for it, but I'd say that pound for pound, dollar for dollar, even Georgia's rural areas are as a whole, more progressive than Alabama. Not only that, I'd say that people in Georgia are generally more progressive minded than Alabamians. I'm not saying these things to put Alabama, or it's people down, it's just a personal observation, or if you want to say it, a personal opinion based on my personal experiences.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:13 PM
 
27,834 posts, read 24,901,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GRS86 View Post
As someone who has spent most of his life in Georgia, but who attended college in Alabama, I have to agree with this assessment 100%. Yes Georgia does have the Atlanta and Savannah influence going for it, but I'd say that pound for pound, dollar for dollar, even Georgia's rural areas are as a whole, more progressive than Alabama. Not only that, I'd say that people in Georgia are generally more progressive minded than Alabamians. I'm not saying these things to put Alabama, or it's people down, it's just a personal observation, or if you want to say it, a personal opinion based on my personal experiences.
Interesting. Outside of metro ATL, GA has two F500 HQ's while AL has one, and both have similar populations and GDP's. Huntsville has the highest GDP out of the second-tier metros in both states.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta, GA
444 posts, read 783,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Interesting. Outside of metro ATL, GA has two F500 HQ's while AL has one, and both have similar populations and GDP's. Huntsville has the highest GDP out of the second-tier metros in both states.
Alabama has more abstract poverty in its rural areas than Georgia. Have you ever traveled through those Alabama Black Belt Counties in western and southwestern Alabama? It makes the poorest counties in Georgia look good. Growing up in South GA, I though I had seen the face of rural poverty until I traveled through those parts of Alabama and rural Mississippi. Rural Georgia has it's cases of severe poverty, but it's not nearly on Alabama's and Mississippi's level.
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Old 07-03-2012, 09:57 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,880,847 times
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Actually I'll traveled through and WORKED IN the rural poverty areas in BOTH states. And I still maintain there's not a stone's throw worth of difference between them. And I daresay that Huntsville is by far more progressive minded than Atlanta.
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