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Old 07-04-2012, 10:36 PM
 
727 posts, read 1,040,538 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Well you are right. Every region does not like density. Atlanta does not have to be dense. It's a choice and the city can choose its future.
The City of Atlanta has adopted a growth plan the focuses on density in infill areas while preserving the historic single family home districts.

It's called the Atlanta Beltline.

Look it up when you have the time.
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Old 07-05-2012, 12:11 AM
 
Location: Mableton, GA USA (NW Atlanta suburb, 4 miles OTP)
11,319 posts, read 21,969,769 times
Reputation: 3853
Quote:
Originally Posted by bornjacksonian View Post
Sad but true. When all in all this would really help the NW area's commute drastically into downtown Atlanta.
As has already been stated and shown in other threads, Atlanta is structured as a multinodal metro, which means that a large percentage of the residents in its suburban areas commute to/from business districts in the suburbs like Cumberland and the Perimeter area, not downtown.

Most of the need, at least in Cobb, is to address commuting along the I-75 corridor to those places, not to the center of the city.
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Old 07-05-2012, 05:42 AM
 
9,603 posts, read 10,977,429 times
Reputation: 2145
Quote:
Originally Posted by StAubin View Post
The City of Atlanta has adopted a growth plan the focuses on density in infill areas while preserving the historic single family home districts.

It's called the Atlanta Beltline.

Look it up when you have the time.
I know all about the belt line already. You should probably address this comment to arjay57. I am the one that said Atlanta will grow through infill development and smarter growth. You may want to look over the last couple posts to get an understanding of what Arjay57 and I were talking about.

Arjay57 said they don't see a reason Atlanta needs to become more dense when there is plenty of land to spread out. I then said infill development is better and arjay57 doesn't agree with the notion of Atlanta becoming more dense instead of spreading out further. Go back and read the responses to get a better understanding of what we were discussing.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:43 AM
 
28,239 posts, read 24,843,801 times
Reputation: 9608
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
Arjay57 said they don't see a reason Atlanta needs to become more dense when there is plenty of land to spread out. I then said infill development is better and arjay57 doesn't agree with the notion of Atlanta becoming more dense instead of spreading out further. Go back and read the responses to get a better understanding of what we were discussing.
I said there's plenty of room for both infill and spreading out.
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Old 07-05-2012, 07:56 AM
 
369 posts, read 534,674 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by MDAllstar View Post
"MD" in my screen name is not an abbreviation for Maryland the state. Residents don't compete, jurisdictions compete. People living in DC, Maryland, Virginia all enjoy the same jobs and advantages. Its better to think of Maryland, Virginia, and DC as counties in a metro area than states. That is how they interact. People travel between each jurisdiction freely for work, shopping, entertainment etc. Also, Dulles is closer to DC at 26 miles than BWI at 35 miles. The only reason Dulles doesn't have commuter rail instead of Metro is because there was no old freight line to convert to commuter rail leading to Dulles. You need old freight lines to build commuter rail at a cheaper price than Metro. Understanding the history of DC not being a freight industrial hub should help you understand why DC's potential commuter rail network would never develop like some other Northeastern cities. The price of ROW basically drives the high cost for heavy rail lines. Freight lines cut down on the cost of obtaining ROW. Instead, the region is overrun by Metro lines in place of commuter rail lines. MARC and VRE commuter rail still have capacity issues on some of their lines because they have to share with CSX freight traffic.

I already addressed the reason building Metro to Dulles may be viable which if you had read my post, you would have seen. Tyson's Corner gives the Silver Metro Line an increased value and ten's of thousands of more passengers.

Where would the ridership come from on a Metro line out to BWI?
How would Metro to BWI be financially viable?

There is no major job center to pass through. There is no densely populated area to pass through. It wouldn't even win federal funding because of extremly low projected ridership. You have to look at these types of issues from a professional planning standpoint. You can't analyze this looking at it from some "rootie too" point of view from just anybody with an opinion off the street. Professionally speaking, the Silver Line is only viable because of the development it passes through and the airport on the end. The land between DC and BWI Airport is very low density single family houses. That type of development can't support heavy rail rapid transit.

People living in Maryland, Virginia, and DC don't live in separate regions. They all live in the same region. They all have access to the same jobs. They all attend the same sporting events. They all watch the same TV stations. They all listen to the same radio stations. They all shop at the same places. They all go to the same nightclubs and lounges. The biggest difference in this region is between people in the DMW versus people in Baltimore. The DMV is definitely night and day to Baltimore even though both region's still have access to the same jobs and advantages.

At the end of the day, DC doesn't compete with Atlanta in almost anything that matters. The only comparison between the two region's would be that both have large successful African American population's. DC competes with NYC, San Francisco, Chicago etc. in all the categories that matter. DC and Atlanta were built in a different eras and are vastly different. Apples and Oranges.

Source for Dulles to DC at 26 miles:
Getting There in Washington, D.C. at Frommer's

Oh please get off your high horse. One of Atlanta's companies has a greater market value than all of D.C. areas top 5 companies combined. The GDP of Atlanta is as larger or larger than the entire state of Maryland.

One thing I can see that D.C. lacks off the bat is an entrepreneurial spirit. It has trouble marketing, promoting and optimizing it's worth and using it as leverage. From Artists to Businesses, the recognition in the rest of the country is limited. That's one thing Atlanta does very well. This is apparent in the D.C. area as far as it's biotech industry, lack of stamina in being the "internet capital of the world" and artists and genre of music that aren't as popular outside its region.

Silly Marylander's with that thinking that's why you'll always get the short end of the stick in the region even though you put the most into the pot. Keep being what you think is TC. I guess you enjoy Va and DC being your most viable options for finding a job. 60% of the population in Prince George's county sure do enjoy the 3 hour + long commute everyday to work OUTSIDE their county. Montgomery sure does like to see all the job growth going to Fairfax and watch it's median household income drop every year and out of the top 10. A very fair and balanced region. It almost seems like Atlanta metro has its job growth better proportioned, in the D.C. area all the jobs are skewed west exacerbating traffic woes.

BWI: you are wrong, using the capitol building as a point of center BWI is 32 miles away and Dulles is 30 miles away. 2 miles difference give or take. Go map it out. Also, currently BWI is the LARGEST airport in the region with more passengers.

And then you talk about low density from greenbelt to BWI you couldn't be more wrong. Ever heard of a "little" place called Fort G. Meade? The base alone has over 41,000 employee's and will only get larger. It's land area larger than Tysons Corner. It
hold the NSA and Defense intelligence agenices. This doesn't even include the private office space leased by contractors around the area that has been built at rapid pace since the start of BRAC. There has been added 10 -15 million square feet of office space completed and underway just in past few years alone. Then you forget about Konterra Town Center, adding 12,000 jobs at build out. You also forgot about the BWI business district that's over 10 million square feet of office space which is one of the largest Aerotroplises in the country. At the other end you have the City of Baltimore. So please get it straight and stop downplaying yourself.

Truth is more people travel the area between greenbelt and BWI than the those do from Tysons to Dulles. The ridership for the silverline will be low. Most people are coming from North or south not east to west. People in D.C. will use national before dulles.

At the end of the day these are STATES not counties competing for jobs and quality residents, like no other region in the country, that's just the way it is. Until MD, VA and Dc combine to be under one state they will always be at odds. The RESIDENTS which ARE the governments, the commuters and VOTERS all compete so that their respective states are better off, some do it better than others though. You can't sit there and tell me Northrup Grumman or Hilton moving to Virginia was a great win for Maryland or D.C., more like a blow to their faces.

Yes, Atlanta metro does compete with the D.C. area. You act as if the entire region is on some higher plane, again, get off your high horse. I can give exception to D.C. city proper because it's our nations capital and it's in a realm of its own that even NYC cannot match. It just has advantages every other city in the country does not. But not the surrounding area and counties. The only difference I can see between D.C. and Atlanta is the urban ring inside the beltway outside the D.C. proper. Fairfax County is the biggest sprawling mess in the country, Loudon County certainly didn't take on any proper urban planning in it's fast paced growth. Even Alexandria outside of old town is a horribly planned and developed. Outside of Ballston-Rosslyn, Arlington is strip malls, single family homes and 1970s garden apts, Crystal city anyone? While Montgomery County has preserved half the county's land, it looks just like Gwinnett or Cobb County outside parts of Silver Spring and Bethesda. Heck Cobb County has taller buildings and more of them in close proximity, there's your density. Prince George's County is a spitting image of DeKalb County, dc area has their Atlantic station too, it's called National Harbor. These area's couldn't be more similar in that regard and more.

Last edited by readyset; 07-05-2012 at 08:37 AM..
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,284 posts, read 16,316,104 times
Reputation: 4941
Quote:
Every time a rider steps on a a bus, the rest of the tax payers pay around $7 to cover the cost of their trip. Forget that mess.
Which tax payers? Certainly not GA taxpayers, since GA gives $0 to MARTA. MARTA gets all its money from revenue, advertising, and federal subsidies which all transit systems get. Unless you pay the 1% MARTA tax in Fulton and DeKalb or buy fares you are not covering anybodies trip. If Atlanta did not have MARTA to help offset the carbon emissions, the metro area would not qualify for as many federal transportation funds. MARTA was 1 of first transit systems in the country to be certified clean air, after they bought a lot of Compressed Natural Gas Buses. Imagine how much worst the air pollution would be if MARTA did not exist and keep several hundred thousand people out of cars and off the roads?
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:30 AM
 
369 posts, read 534,674 times
Reputation: 229
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
Which tax payers? Certainly not GA taxpayers, since GA gives $0 to MARTA. MARTA gets all its money from revenue, advertising, and federal subsidies which all transit systems get. Unless you pay the 1% MARTA tax in Fulton and DeKalb or buy fares you are not covering anybodies trip. If Atlanta did not have MARTA to help offset the carbon emissions, the metro area would not qualify for as many federal transportation funds. MARTA was 1 of first transit systems in the country to be certified clean air, after they bought a lot of Compressed Natural Gas Buses. Imagine how much worst the air pollution would be if MARTA did not exist and keep several hundred thousand people out of cars and off the roads?
That's true METRO get's funding injection from the states but people in Baltimore and Eastern shore, Richmond and Norfolk aren't using METRO.
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Old 07-05-2012, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,284 posts, read 16,316,104 times
Reputation: 4941
MARTA is the largest transit system in the country that gets 0 state funding. Rednecks don't like mass transit because there aren't any gun racks from their rifles. Conservatives don't like transit because working-class people use it to get to work, instead of buying gas and supporting oil companies.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:14 AM
 
155 posts, read 341,943 times
Reputation: 253
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I realize that some people think density is the gold standard, but not everyone agrees. In Atlanta many of the largest companies choose suburban locations. That's where many of the high paying jobs tend to be located as well.

Why isn't it reasonable to have a number of medium density job centers?
The easiest way I found to think about it is in terms of infrastructure per linear foot. In the suburbs / Low density areas, you have fewer people supporting each linear foot of infrastructure vs a city where you drive down the cost of supporting by having more people support each foot. The cost is generally the same, yes, eventually you can hit a level of density where this may not be the case.

When a suburb is getting built out its cheap and easy to install water, power, sewer, gas, roads, ect, but as the community ages you have to perform maintenance on this infrastructure, but you have small tax base supporting many more linear feet of infrastructure. We are just now starting to get to the point where some of the original suburbs, but in the 1950/60's are needing major upgrades and can see how much effort must be expended to keep these area viable.
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Old 07-05-2012, 09:52 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,284 posts, read 16,316,104 times
Reputation: 4941
Quote:
We are just now starting to get to the point where some of the original suburbs, but in the 1950/60's are needing major upgrades and can see how much effort must be expended to keep these area viable.
DeKalb County Sewer system.
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