Dysfunction chic: Metro Atlanta eyes Europe as a model

[Saintmarks]

I don't think many of you read the link. The comparison to Europe is the European Union. Atlanta and its multiple large counties that don't have a unified covering or government to make decisions for the whole is the point, too many small fiefdoms fighting for their own interests and not the interests of the whole. The article listed Clayton County as Greece, Cobb as France, Atlanta as Germany, Gwinnett as Belgium.... Atlanta being the healthy economic powerhouse (the metaphor starts breaking down right there).

The comments following in the article are very interesting and enlightening. I also found it interesting that the TSPLOST wasn't a pass ITP and a fail OTP... it was a fail everywhere. I am not local anymore so get most of my info from here and from the AJC online, but it looks like it was flawed plan from the start.

One interesting comment from the readers was that putting this on the primary (which draws the finge of both parties) vs. the general election made it doomed from the start. Another was the 10 year time table which is not enough to get serious solutions like commuter rail or light or heavy real to the suburbs.

[Mutiny77]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I don't think many of you read the link. The comparison to Europe is the European Union. Atlanta and its multiple large counties that don't have a unified covering or government to make decisions for the whole is the point, too many small fiefdoms fighting for their own interests and not the interests of the whole. The article listed Clayton County as Greece, Cobb as France, Atlanta as Germany, Gwinnett as Belgium.... Atlanta being the healthy economic powerhouse (the metaphor starts breaking down right there).

The comments following in the article are very interesting and enlightening. I also found it interesting that the TSPLOST wasn't a pass ITP and a fail OTP... it was a fail everywhere. I am not local anymore so get most of my info from here and from the AJC online, but it looks like it was flawed plan from the start.

One interesting comment from the readers was that putting this on the primary (which draws the finge of both parties) vs. the general election made it doomed from the start. Another was the 10 year time table which is not enough to get serious solutions like commuter rail or light or heavy real to the suburbs.

Many of us made that very same point here.

It should also be noted that many voted against it because it wasn't deemed progressive enough (i.e., not enough funding for transit, bike lanes, etc.).

[bryantm3]

Originally Posted by cittic10

The worst part about this is that GA is such a beautiful place and as the sprawl continues, and the trees are clear cut and hills and mountains are leveled for subdivisions, office parks and the big box and strip malls that seem to follow here- more so than anywhere else, we're going to lose so much of that natural beauty forever. Once the mountains are removed and the trees come out, that's it. It's never coming back.

i mean, part of that is true but part of it isn't. many people don't know it, but the entire united states was clear cut at one time.

here is a map of all the places in the united states that haven't been clear cut:



seriously. if you look at old pictures of kennesaw mountain around the time of the battle, places in north georgia, etc., it was all clear cut, it looked like nothing but rolling plains. it was all clear cut at one time or another. we actually have more trees today in the US than we did 50 years ago, and are adding trees every year, although it's hard to imagine.

the thing about that though, is that we didn't have structures all over that land. now we've clear cut it and added buildings everywhere, and moved the earth around. how much of that nature can reverse i'm not sure.

[aries4118]

Originally Posted by Saintmarks

I don't think many of you read the link. The comparison to Europe is the European Union. Atlanta and its multiple large counties that don't have a unified covering or government to make decisions for the whole is the point, too many small fiefdoms fighting for their own interests and not the interests of the whole. The article listed Clayton County as Greece, Cobb as France, Atlanta as Germany, Gwinnett as Belgium.... Atlanta being the healthy economic powerhouse (the metaphor starts breaking down right there).

...

You beat me to the punch, Brother Marks! Actually says a lot about many (if not most) of the posters on here.

[Atlwarrior]

At least all major European cities have excellent rail transit

[SEAandATL]

Originally Posted by Mutiny77

Nowhere in the U.S. has the crazy density levels of Tokyo which is the source of that high demand, so you'd better believe it's an absolute non-starter in Atlanta.

Well, finally I see "MARTA" and "privatizing" in the same article. I'm glad they are finally considering it.

MARTA aims to prove it's a good steward of tax dollars *| ajc.com

I almost forgot, the UK is another country that has privatized transit, and it's really not that dense outside of London.

[Saintmarks]

Originally Posted by SEAandATL

Well, finally I see "MARTA" and "privatizing" in the same article. I'm glad they are finally considering it.

MARTA aims to prove it's a good steward of tax dollars *| ajc.com

I almost forgot, the UK is another country that has privatized transit, and it's really not that dense outside of London.

I big to differ. Lived there two years and the rest of England is VERY dense. The following statistics are for England as a separate entity, not the UK as a whole (meaning I am not including Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland in these figures, which would bring density numbers down admittedly)

Population: 53,013,000 (2011)
Land area: 50,346 square miles
Density: 1054.1 per sq/mi

Greater London population: 8,278,251

So there are over 44,000,000 people outside of Greater London in an area over 8,000 sq miles less than Georgia (whose land area is over 58,000 square miles). If England were considered a separate country from the rest of the UK, its density would be the second highest in Europe after the island nation of Malta. England has a lot of land protected by greenbelts and as part of the National Trust, so the country side is protected and there is a feel that it isn't dense, but Manchester, Birmingham, Leeds, Liverpool, Sheffield, Newcastle and other cities are quite large and dense. Medium sized cities dot the land in a fashion only seen in the US in areas like, oddly enough, New England.

I am not trying to debunk your overall idea that MARTA should be privatized or reorganized or that transit shouldn't spread outside the core of Atlanta, but the last statement had to be corrected.