Rep. Mike Jacobs: "Privatize MARTA buses" (Atlanta: middle-class, transfer)
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It's just as reasonable to ask if all roads can be privatize just as it is reasonable to ask if MARTA can be privatized, so some of y'all conservative types should quit with the false righteousness already.
We do privatize roads, if you factor in that we hire private construction companies to build and often to maintain them. Cities like Sandy Springs have privatized and sub-contracted many of their city services. So, there is a lot that can be done and that does work.
If the poster is trying to suggest that some private entity owns the roads, that is apples and oranges. We have been down the road before. Roads are essential for all transport and public safety. Buses and transit are not.
When human beings evolve to the next level and physical impairments like old age, mental deterioration, degradation of the limbs, and birth defects become virtually nonexistent, then maybe that day will come.
In the meantime I would certainly hope that you are not holding your breath.
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Originally Posted by arjay57
Yet we do provide buses and transit for people who either can't afford or who choose not to drive. For them they are essential.
Personally I'd like to see society evolve to the point where everybody pays their own way, but I guess we are still a long way from that.
Last edited by AcidSnake; 08-09-2012 at 03:36 PM..
We do privatize roads, if you factor in that we hire private construction companies to build and often to maintain them.
Now you are being dishonest and pretty much insulting my intelligence with this statement. Private contruction companies also built MARTA as well. When the heck has there ever been a government-owned construction firm that builds rail stations?
Also, the GADOT has government road crews in addition to the private companies who ensure that the roads governed by the state are well-maintained; which is not dissimilar from MARTA utilizing both government employees and private companies to maintain its infrastructure.
I could've swore that the standard for private versus public operations lies in who governs and is responsible for the maintenance of the entities, NOT who actually built the infrastructure in the first place.
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Originally Posted by neil0311
Cities like Sandy Springs have privatized and sub-contracted many of their city services. So, there is a lot that can be done and that does work.
Not every service can easily be privatized. What may work for services like issuing building permits doesn't necessarily translate over to transit systems built in a fairly sprawled out metropolitan area. Now that's comparing apples and oranges.
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Originally Posted by neil0311
the poster is trying to suggest that some private entity owns the roads, that is apples and oranges. We have been down the road before. Roads are essential for all transport and public safety. Buses and transit are not.
That's your opinion and that doesn't make you the sole transportation God of what is a reasonable conversation in the comparison of roads versus transit systems.
Transit systems fill in the gaps for constituencies who can not afford cars, are unable to drive cars, or do not wish to purchase cars. These systems also provide a vital link for bringing people into the world of capitalism.
To bypass the usefulness of transit systems simply because you just happen to not to be in a situation where you need it is the very height of narrow-minded parochialism. Too many people suffer from this thought process at their own peril.
Last edited by AcidSnake; 08-09-2012 at 03:54 PM..
Now you are being dishonest and pretty much insulting my intelligence with this statement. Private contruction companies also built MARTA as well. When the heck has there ever been a government-owned construction firm that builds rail stations?
WTF are you talking about? I was responding to the comment about the "privatization of roads" and it had nothing to do with MARTA at all. Of course private companies built MARTA, and they should RUN it too. We'd get more bang for the buck and better service. Of course fares would be higher, but they should be anyway. Gasoline has gone up by 200% or better in the last 5 years to meet market demand, so should MARTA fares.
Yeah and in your response you and others of the same opinion keep talking about how reasonable it is to talk about privatizing transit and how UNREASONABLE it is to mention whether or not privatizing roads should also be a part of the topic as well.
That's WTF I'm talking about and you know it.
Stop trying to minimize my points. It's not my fault your anti-transit/pro-transit privatization reasoning lies on a weak foundation. We can continue to debate this stuff if you want, but stop trying to act like you don't know what I'm talking about every time I nail you to the wall on a fine point.
That's dishonest debating.
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311
WTF are you talking about? I was responding to the comment about the "privatization of roads" and it had nothing to do with MARTA at all. Of course private companies built MARTA, and they should RUN it too. We'd get more bang for the buck and better service. Of course fares would be higher, but they should be anyway. Gasoline has gone up by 200% or better in the last 5 years to meet market demand, so should MARTA fares.
Yeah and in your response you and others of the same opinion keep talking about how reasonable it is to talk about privatizing transit and how UNREASONABLE it is to mention whether or not privatizing roads should also be a part of the topic as well.
That's WTF I'm talking about and you know it.
Stop trying to minimize my points. It's not my fault your anti-transit/pro-transit privatization reasoning lies on a weak foundation. We can continue to debate this stuff if you want, but stop trying to act like you don't know what I'm talking about every time I nail you to the wall on a fine point.
That's dishonest debating.
Stop calling me dishonest. You can have a difference of opinion, but **** about me being dishonest, which I am not. One thing you get from me is honesty. You may not like it or my opinion, and I frankly don't give a rat's ass whether you do or not.
If you can propose a workable and reasonable way to "privatize roads" then I'm not against it. What would that even mean? Maintenance? Legal ownership and right of way? How would that be paid for and what is the cost? We know that transit can and has been successfully privatized. Do you have an example of how roads could be, or is this all just political bluster to make some kind of point?
Any piece of infrastructure can be privatized as long as it proves to be profitable. The issue with privatizing MARTA buses is that the farebox returns for buses are notoriously low as some routes are long with few riders. One could suggest that those routes be cut, but at the same time as a public service is it ethical to abandon some transit dependent riders because they happen to live along a bus route that is too costly? Before you answer that question, you also have to ask yourself if it is fair that we subsidize roads in sparsely populated neighborhoods just so someone can live on multiple acres of land.
Another issue with privatizing buses is safety and performance. There would still have to be government oversight to ensure that all vehicles are safe and all drivers are competent and well-trained. This is an issue that simply cannot be overlooked and you definitely can't leave it to businesses to regulate themselves, as it is in their interests to keep costs as low as possible in order to maintain profitability.
Overall the proposal to privatize buses is much easier said than done.
Stop calling me dishonest. You can have a difference of opinion, but **** about me being dishonest, which I am not. One thing you get from me is honesty. You may not like it or my opinion, and I frankly don't give a rat's ass whether you do or not.
If you can propose a workable and reasonable way to "privatize roads" then I'm not against it. What would that even mean? Maintenance? Legal ownership and right of way? How would that be paid for and what is the cost? We know that transit can and has been successfully privatized. Do you have an example of how roads could be, or is this all just political bluster to make some kind of point?
We all know you're honest, neil...
Privatizing roads is definitely possible with facilities like the Chicago Skyway and the Indiana Toll Road being an example. However whenever we talk about privatizing infrastructure we must ensure that the public welfare isn't sacrificed for someone's profit.
Gasoline has gone up by 200% or better in the last 5 years to meet market demand, so should MARTA fares.
The free gasoline market has spoken. It's a good thing we aren't like in the late 1800's when the big banks raised the price artificially by buying non-deliverable contracts.
You guys are much smarter than that, what with the media these days and all. The founders would have drilled on their cherry tree lots, and refined their own gasoline.
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