McMansions making a comeback? (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: apartments, co-op, mortgages)
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These mass produced houses are cheap for how much space you are getting.
I live in Buckhead(30305), I have been successful in business(I own multiple businesses, started my first in college then sold it and started others and bought others), grew up with two highly successful parents, and I own a very nice home but I would never build or buy the type of houses that are in my price point in CCOS, Sugarloaf, St. Marlo, etc. Those houses are for people who want their house to say they are "rich" putting ten percent down and having a low net worth does not make you "rich." Generally people buy those houses to say look at what I "bought." (went to the bank and was lucky enough to get a mortgage)
Compare the listings I posted above.
??
I'm sorry, but I read this and you sound like you are coming off just as you accuse people living in those neighborhoods.
very pretentious.
Lets go with your theory that there are those with low net worth and high net worth but overall high enough salary for a higher end home.
What is wrong with someone not being able to afford a $8 million home in the most ideal Buckhead zip code? but buying a $ 2 million (or in more cases ... $600,000-$800,000) home in Duluth?
I mean it seems pretty simple to me.
But I suppose people are just saying look at me, because they can only afford the $2 million price point and not a $8 million price point?
but that aside... the problem I have with your over all theory is most of the most desirable Buckhead neighborhood was built for wealth of a much smaller city, than Metro Atlanta is today. Most of the land there is built-out, yet we have grown by leaps and bounds.
As the city grows, we also grow the number of wealthy people, which surpasses the amount of properties Buckhead can handle. That is why you see some expensive homes built OTP. ITP/Buckhead, given the zoning can't handle the demand growth by itself. In many ways this is good for Buckhead as it has helped them grow in value over time, but it is also a clear indication that Metro Atlanta needed to grow in housing stock (at all price points).
The other problem I have is people keep forgetting where many jobs are locating. Many of the newer engineering/tech heavy industries that are new to Metro Atlanta are increasingly located OTP.... and I don't just mean at Perimeter Center. They are along I-75, 85, and 400 in those mid-rise office buildings and often have a light industrial component on-site or nearby, since they are engineering heavy (aka...trying to physically create a product for development or build specialized industrial products on site). You also get alot of mini-campuses, like Cisco in Lawrenceville.
These bring high paying jobs to the north metro OTP, which increases demand for homes at higher price points OTP and not necessarily in Buckhead
I just find this kind of silly. I mean in many ways with these arguments 80 years ago people building homes for the first time in Buckhead were McMansions (for the reasons you described above) and the people living in the old mansions along Peachtree were the ones with the real old wealth.
It is a clear mixed issue between the number of people (demand), proximity, and zoning/ability to build.
I'm sorry, but I read this and you sound like you are coming off just as you accuse people living in those neighborhoods.
very pretentious.
Lets go with your theory that there are those with low net worth and high net worth but overall high enough salary for a higher end home.
What is wrong with someone not being able to afford a $8 million home in the most ideal Buckhead zip code? but buying a $ 2 million (or in more cases ... $600,000-$800,000) home in Duluth?
I mean it seems pretty simple to me.
But I suppose people are just saying look at me, because they can only afford the $2 million price point and not a $8 million price point?
but that aside... the problem I have with your over all theory is most of the most desirable Buckhead neighborhood was built for wealth of a much smaller city, than Metro Atlanta is today. Most of the land there is built-out, yet we have grown by leaps and bounds.
As the city grows, we also grow the number of wealthy people, which surpasses the amount of properties Buckhead can handle. That is why you see some expensive homes built OTP. ITP/Buckhead, given the zoning can't handle the demand growth by itself. In many ways this is good for Buckhead as it has helped them grow in value over time, but it is also a clear indication that Metro Atlanta needed to grow in housing stock (at all price points).
The other problem I have is people keep forgetting where many jobs are locating. Many of the newer engineering/tech heavy industries that are new to Metro Atlanta are increasingly located OTP.... and I don't just mean at Perimeter Center. They are along I-75, 85, and 400 in those mid-rise office buildings and often have a light industrial component on-site or nearby, since they are engineering heavy (aka...trying to physically create a product for development or build specialized industrial products on site). You also get alot of mini-campuses, like Cisco in Lawrenceville.
These bring high paying jobs to the north metro OTP, which increases demand for homes at higher price points OTP and not necessarily in Buckhead
I just find this kind of silly. I mean in many ways with these arguments 80 years ago people building homes for the first time in Buckhead were McMansions (for the reasons you described above) and the people living in the old mansions along Peachtree were the ones with the real old wealth.
It is a clear mixed issue between the number of people (demand), proximity, and zoning/ability to build.
Pretentious! Ha
Spending 2 million on a house in Duluth so you can appear to have an 8 million Buckhead mansion is what a pretentious person would do!
According to your logic I should move to Sugarloaf and buy a house so I can appear to have an 8 million dollar mansion. No thanks I am not interested in a cheap mass produced house. And I do not need to keep up with the Joneses. Also the 2 million dollar houses might have the same sq. footage as an 8 million dollar mansion but they do not have the quality or style of an 8 million dollar Buckhead home(and that is not because they are newly constructed, just poor design).
There is a reason why so many of the ten year old houses in the exurbs are in disrepair. It is because the houses were to cheap for what you get and the people might be able to afford the mortgage but they cannot afford the upkeep of a house like that.
The original homes built in Buckhead or other intown areas(Ansley Park, Druid Hills, etc.) are all of a distinct style. The mcmansions of Duluth are faux styles; the designs are not the true architectural style they are trying to replicate(they could replicate authentic styles but that would cost more). Look at how much the style of houses in Duluth has changed from the 1990's and early 2000's. Back then it was all faux French chateaus and faux Georgians, and now you have the faux rustic houses. I know of a couple houses in CCOS that have been re-veneered to appear rustic.
Also you will notice many of the exurban houses are not fully furnished. This is because they would rather their house to appear grand. It is a quantity over quality kind of thing. To furnish a high end home well you are going to be talking at least $100 per. sq. ft. So that means in the
I would hate to work in one of the low rise office buildings OTP; I much rather working in a high rise in Downtown Atlanta. I love how I can leave my office go to a restaurant, walk to parks, meetings, and ride the MARTA to meetings in Midtown. By the way I have never been mugged or shot! (I just know how the exurbia supporters act like Downtown is hood.)
People can pretend what I am saying is so shocking or elitist but it's the truth. It is sad so little people have the heart to say the truth nowadays.
These mass produced houses are cheap for how much space you are getting.
I live in Buckhead(30305), I have been successful in business(I own multiple businesses, started my first in college then sold it and started others and bought others), grew up with two highly successful parents, and I own a very nice home but I would never build or buy the type of houses that are in my price point in CCOS, Sugarloaf, St. Marlo, etc. Those houses are for people who want their house to say they are "rich" putting ten percent down and having a low net worth does not make you "rich." Generally people buy those houses to say look at what I "bought." (went to the bank and was lucky enough to get a mortgage)
Compare the listings I posted above.
My house is nothing close to what was pictured, so I don't think it would be called a "McMansion" by anyone except the most deluded, but it is 3,800 square feet between the mail floor and upstairs. To me, it's just a fairly mundane looking, normal brick house. I have 3 kids, so I need 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms, but beyond that it's just a normal looking house for my family.
As for "mass produced" houses, not sure of the point. Unless you hire an architect and a builder to design and custom build a home for you, just about all homes are mass produced. My home in Atlanta is put together a whole lot better than my 120 year old home was in Massachusetts (can you say 2x6 joists). Older or smaller doesn't mean better.
I have 3 kids, so I need 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms, but beyond that it's just a normal looking house for my family.
DFCS now being dispatched to every household where a kid might be forced to share a bedroom.
Kidding, but, clearly we've got different ideas about what "needing" space means. I can see how having that much room would be an absolute blessing when raising a family, but there are generations of people who were raised with less than a 1:1 ratio of people to bathrooms and bedrooms, and literally millions of households in the US where that is normal. "Wanting" those ameneties and "needing" them are not the same thing. The kids haven't gotten bigger; our expecatations have.
I have to agree with Neil on this. If you have 3 kids and a spouse and a home office, 3800 sf is not humongous.
At our old ramshackle place both of us have home offices because it's our base of operations. We conduct substantial business from there. I've also got a music studio because that's my hobby. We have an oversized kitchen and a wine cellar because those are our passions. We've got a barn out back for fixing up old cars and storing garden equipment (and of course giving the cats a place to prowl).
Is it possible to live in a smaller space? Sure, and we have done so. But if a little larger home is affordable -- and for many Atlantans it is -- why not? We've created the spaces we want over a period of years, and it doesn't have one dang thing to do with showing off.
My house is nothing close to what was pictured, so I don't think it would be called a "McMansion" by anyone except the most deluded, but it is 3,800 square feet between the mail floor and upstairs. To me, it's just a fairly mundane looking, normal brick house. I have 3 kids, so I need 5 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms, but beyond that it's just a normal looking house for my family.
As for "mass produced" houses, not sure of the point. Unless you hire an architect and a builder to design and custom build a home for you, just about all homes are mass produced. My home in Atlanta is put together a whole lot better than my 120 year old home was in Massachusetts (can you say 2x6 joists). Older or smaller doesn't mean better.
See now a 3800 sq. ft. mass produced house does not bother me at all. That is why I specifically point out certain neighborhoods. Because in my opinion you should not be spending 3 million to have the same house as your neighbor. And the three million dollar example comes straight from CCOS where they build the same floor plan right next to each other. One of the houses is a red brick house that has been sitting on the market for years. The white brick one which is the same floor plan sold for 3.3(it was nicely redone).
I have to agree with Neil on this. If you have 3 kids and a spouse and a home office, 3800 sf is not humongous.
At our old ramshackle place both of us have home offices because it's our base of operations. We conduct substantial business from there. I've also got a music studio because that's my hobby. We have an oversized kitchen and a wine cellar because those are our passions. We've got a barn out back for fixing up old cars and storing garden equipment (and of course giving the cats a place to prowl).
Is it possible to live in a smaller space? Sure, and we have done so. But if a little larger home is affordable -- and for many Atlantans it is -- why not? We've created the spaces we want over a period of years, and it doesn't have one dang thing to do with showing off.
If you are going to have 3 kids, 2 home offices, a music studio, a grand kitchen, and a wine cellar . . . yeah, a 1,600 SF 3/2 probably isn't going to accomidate. That to me is a different discussion than "I've got X kids, so I need by default X+2 bedrooms and X+1 bathrooms".
Houses were certainly mass produced earlier in the century, so I don't know why it's automatically become such a travesty. There are streets in many neighborhoods where there are 5+ houses, all 90 years old, right in a line, all built identically. They may have been since modified or added on to with differentiating features, but they were certainly mass produced. Heck flying into Chicago, a lot of the suburbs look like someone literally photocopied the same house over an entire block, and those are old neighborhoods.
I was kind of disappointed when I found out you are a 50 something year old man and not a 25 year old kid. You are so judgmental and I hate to think that you are passing this onto your children. I don't know why you think it's so odd for successful professionals to want to live in a larger home and why you assume all are mortgaged to the hilt and only doing it for show. There are 740 homes in our neighborhood, and yes, there are some pretentious people who might be trying to keep up with the Joneses but most are very nice just like me. One or both spouses work very hard for their money.
My husband grew up lower middle class. His family struggled with 3 out of 4 fatally sick children and didn't have much. He put himself through college, his MBA and worked like a dog to move up in the company he worked for for 25 years. Nobody paid his way. He then got himself a nice job down in this wonderful city. He likes coming home and being able to go golfing right here where he lives. He likes having a home he takes pride in. He didn't come from old money- his parents had nothing. It must have been nice for you to come from "old money" where you have only known the finer things in life that allows you to sit up on your pedestal and judge the peons. You must have been in tons and tons of homes up this way to know we all can't afford to furnish our homes and are living paycheck to paycheck to pay our "huge" mortgage payments.
Excuse me while I tighten my roller skates. I've got a lot of house to skate around in without any furniture over here. :-)
These mass produced houses are cheap for how much space you are getting.
I live in Buckhead(30305), I have been successful in business(I own multiple businesses, started my first in college then sold it and started others and bought others), grew up with two highly successful parents, and I own a very nice home but I would never build or buy the type of houses that are in my price point in CCOS, Sugarloaf, St. Marlo, etc. Those houses are for people who want their house to say they are "rich" putting ten percent down and having a low net worth does not make you "rich." Generally people buy those houses to say look at what I "bought." (went to the bank and was lucky enough to get a mortgage)
Compare the listings I posted above.
I actually agree with the above and I agree with mbryant in regards to the pics of the McMansions. I do see them as cookie cutter houses. I know quite a few people in the metro who live in them and they are poor quality IMO and probably only cost $40K at the most to build so builders are making a killing off of these people.
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginbuffalo
GeorgiaLakeSearch-
I was kind of disappointed when I found out you are a 50 something year old man and not a 25 year old kid. You are so judgmental and I hate to think that you are passing this onto your children. I don't know why you think it's so odd for successful professionals to want to live in a larger home and why you assume all are mortgaged to the hilt and only doing it for show. There are 740 homes in our neighborhood, and yes, there are some pretentious people who might be trying to keep up with the Joneses but most are very nice just like me. One or both spouses work very hard for their money.
In regards to the bold above, it is actually pretty much a fact that a lot of people are "house poor" meaning they bought their house, wanting to live in a certain place and got in over their heads with the mortgage in order to have a specific type of house in a specific neighborhood instead of looking at what they could actually afford and buying a smaller, cheaper house. They want to live like the Joneses basically. This is especially prevalent amongst younger professional people. I myself am in my 30s and when we were looking to buy a house in 2006/2007 before the housing market collasped there were many "professionals" trying to tell us how it would "only" be x.xx amount more to get a mortage that was 100K more than what we were comfortable with. A lot of people fall for this sort of thing because they want to show off their home or they want to buy in a particular school district or even they want their kids to all have different rooms.
FWIW, I grew up with 3 brothers (I was the only girl). We had a 3/2 house and I shared a room with my older brother until my mom bought a 4/2 house (when I was 15 years old) and after that only our two youngest brothers shared a room. Sharing rooms is not torture for children. I have a smaller, cookie cutter house now that I don't think is well built and didn't think was all that well built when I bought it, but I got it at a good price and luckily I don't owe the bank more than it is worth unlike a lot of people in my and surrounding neighborhoods. We were young when we bought (late 20s) and we could have bought a bigger square foot home for our 3 person family but as it stands we do have 4bds and 3baths but only 1200sq ft and that is enough for us. I don't like to clean though and wouldn't want a huge house. I would like a basement for storage so we are looking to buy a house in SW ATL 30311 zip because they usually have basements but even then I wouldn't get some huge house (and they do have McMansions in that part of the city too).
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