Atlanta Streetcar (Downtown Loop) progress (fit in, agriculture, trendy)

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

How does mass transit benefit someone with their own car living in suburban Greensboro, NC?

Probably about as much as the billion dollar (it is actually hard to find costs for many highways, probably a smart move politically) "Greensboro Urban Loop" will benefit me.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by jsvh

So highways get a blank check because freight is not transported on light-rail lines?

It's not a "blank check." People are willing to pay for highways because they are needed to get to work, visit relatives in different cities, transport food, move the military around, etc. There's no way to get around paying for highways. They're necessary. So all of the whining about highway funding really needs to come to an end.

Originally Posted by jsvh

Do you really feel it is not fair to show that the streetcar provides a similar cost / benefit as highways?

It doesn't. Streetcars will never be as important to the American economy as our highway system.

[bfarley30]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

It isn't about naysaying or believing, it is about analyzing facts and making a decision based on reason and not hopes.

And that decision to believe what you read is YOUR OPINION. There are facts for both side of this argument that you can state that will support your opinion or mine. At the end of the day there is no way to prove how successful the service will be here until it is up and running and has been in service long enough to evaluate it.

[cqholt]

It's not a "blank check." People are willing to pay for highways because they are needed to get to work, visit relatives in different cities, transport food, move the military around, etc. There's no way to get around paying for highways. They're necessary. So all of the whining about highway funding really needs to come to an end.

All can be done more efficiently with rail.

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by JPD

Now you're moving the goalposts.

Transit benefits everyone who lives in an area that has transit, even the people who do not use the transit system. Obviously.

No, I'm not moving the goalposts.

Highways benefit everyone. Interstate 95 in particular may not benefit someone living in Montana, but everyone in Montana most certainly benefits from our national highway system. Even New Yorkers benefit from the interstates that allow millions of pounds of food and goods to be transported across our bridges and into the city everyday. That's why it's a ridiculously stupid waste of time to complain about highway funding when even Manhattanites depend on them.

Most people, on the other hand, do not depend on mass transit. So it doesn't make sense to support transit the way we do highways.

[bfarley30]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

How does that change the fact that highways benefit everyone whereas the NYC Subway does not? Highways are a vastly more important part of our national infrastructure than mass transportation systems.

That is not a correct statement. A highway in Idaho doesn't benefit me; I've never been nor do I plan to go. There are some highways in Georgia that don't benefit me, yet I'm still expected to pay for them through taxes, even if it is a gas tax. I don't want my money going to roads I don't use versus your argument of you don't want to pay for a transit system you don't use. But at the end of the day they are all subsidized and will continue to be that way. Roads benefit people just like transit does and believe that we as taxpayers have paid far more for roads and highways than we will ever pay for transit. Me personally I'd rather much fly to a city and use transit then drive, depending on where I'm going. Example, no way I'd drive to NYC and drive IN NYC. That's what transit is for.

[arjay57]

Streetcars are hardly a panacea but if that's what the young folks want let them have it. It will be up to them to live with the darn things and pay for their upkeep.

My generation built roads and I don't think anybody would claim they are the perfect solution either.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

No, I'm not moving the goalposts.

Highways benefit everyone. Interstate 95 in particular may not benefit someone living in Montana, but everyone in Montana most certainly benefits from our national highway system. Even New Yorkers benefit from the interstates that allow millions of pounds of food and goods to be transported across our bridges and into the city everyday. That's why it's a ridiculously stupid waste of time to complain about highway funding when even Manhattanites depend on them.

Most people, on the other hand, do not depend on mass transit. So it doesn't make sense to support transit the way we do highways.

And this is where your argument falls on its face. Do you think it would be easier or harder to move those goods through New York City if there was no subway and all the subway riders had to get in cars and use the highways?

[jsvh]

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

It's not a "blank check." People are willing to pay for highways because they are needed to get to work, visit relatives in different cities, transport food, move the military around, etc. There's no way to get around paying for highways. They're necessary. So all of the whining about highway funding really needs to come to an end.

London seems to have done fine by banning highways in the city.

Originally Posted by BajanYankee

It doesn't. Streetcars will never be as important to the American economy as our highway system.

I am not denying that the highway system is important, just that they are part of our transportation system as a whole and each project should be weighed on it's own costs / benefits. Highways should get no more of a free pass than anything else. If a street car or f'in row boats provide a better, more cost effective, transportation solution after considering all factors then build me some f'in row boats. There are pros and cons to each mode of transportation, do you really think we should build more highways to help people get around Venice, Italy?

[BajanYankee]

Originally Posted by bfarley30

That is not a correct statement. A highway in Idaho doesn't benefit me; I've never been nor do I plan to go.

I can see the value in paying for a road in Idaho. There's this stuff called timber that we need to build houses, desks, and other goods. I'm sure there's also food in my local supermarket that was transported along a highway in Idaho (contrary to popular belief, most food in Brooklyn wasn't grown organically on a rooftop in Williamsburg). So I'm willing to pay for that.

I don't see the value in paying for a streetcar in Atlanta.