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Old 10-04-2012, 11:44 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,941,179 times
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^Obviously a fair amount of that does happen which is why I get UGA grads making 70k+ that can barely turn on their laptop masquerading as technology consultants wreaking havoc on my projects. Harvard isn't a panacea for everyone's resume (they don't exactly have much of an engineering dept) so a Tech grad may well have been more qualified for certain roles. Go to Wall St. and you'll see the exact opposite. Firms generally won't touch anyone that can't get into the Harvard/Yale/Princeton clubs even though most of the time all you need is decent quant skills to read an Excel sheet and the intestinal fortitude to gamble w/ 8 figures of somebody else's money.

At the end of the day, hiring unqualified people simply b/c they shared a campus w/ you won't do you a ton of good. Having strong ties to a school isn't necessarily a bad thing though of course. If you're in a field like mine that chews through people, you need a steady supply of qualified applicants and a career services dept nudging them in my direction. The reputation doesn't hurt either when it comes time to sell a team to a client or to do a deal...a bunch of strong engineering grads to solve your tech problem is an easy sell if they all went through the same program as your client.
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Old 10-05-2012, 06:57 PM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,401,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFox View Post
I can confirm one of Atlanta's largest companies starts employees at vastly different salaries depending on where they graduate from.
That very much fits in with my thesis that if you want an engineering job in the Atlanta area, GT is most likely your best bet. Outside the Atlanta area- not really so important to graduate from GT versus other engineering schools.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFox View Post
There are some severe pro-GT biases here to the point that it made for some hilarious conversations - someone justified giving "Employee A" a higher salary than "Employee B" because "Employee A" was a GT grad and "Employee B" was only a Harvard grad.
That even moreso shows that such a mentality is really about "home bias" or "home preference," Atlanta/GT being home, and being the most highly touted school at home for such a business moreso than it is about anything else. Certainly it can't be legitimately said that Harvard is a low-rate or mediocre school. I'm sure that Boston area engineering jobs mostly go to MIT graduates, as companies in that metro probably have an MIT bias. But as you get outside those metros, and especially as you get into the larger companies, those sorts of differences and biases tend to disappear, and a GT grad starts at the same salary as a U of Florida grad as an NC State grad as a Mississippi State grad. So while "only a Harvard grad" IS really a bonehead statement to make, it's just one of many reasons for the trend of Atlanta area businesses having a preference for GT grads. Most GT students really like Atlanta and would therefore be less likely to leave a job after an employer has spent money hiring and training them. I would imagine that engineering jobs in urban areas have lower turnover in general than engineering jobs in smaller towns and more rural areas. So when you have such a large supply of local talent who are less likely to bolt once you hire them, it makes good business sense to preference GT, even if it is idiotic to try to trash Harvard.

Last edited by MantaRay; 10-05-2012 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 10-05-2012, 07:22 PM
 
6 posts, read 4,466 times
Reputation: 12
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyingFox View Post
I can confirm one of Atlanta's largest companies starts employees at vastly different salaries depending on where they graduate from. There are some severe pro-GT biases here to the point that it made for some hilarious conversations - someone justified giving "Employee A" a higher salary than "Employee B" because "Employee A" was a GT grad and "Employee B" was only a Harvard grad.
I don't disagree that there is pro-GT bias among Atlanta companies. However, for an engineering position it is not exactly "hilarious" to give preference to a GT grad over a Harvard grad. Harvard engineering is not even considered to be in the top ten engineering programs. GT's advantage over Harvard for ENGINEERING positions does make sense, even in cities other than Atlanta. My opinion.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:20 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,125,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLifer View Post
I don't disagree that there is pro-GT bias among Atlanta companies. However, for an engineering position it is not exactly "hilarious" to give preference to a GT grad over a Harvard grad. Harvard engineering is not even considered to be in the top ten engineering programs. GT's advantage over Harvard for ENGINEERING positions does make sense, even in cities other than Atlanta. My opinion.
Yeah, but Harvard is highly selective and exclusive. Having a Harvard degree says a lot about the individual. Really, ultimately, it is about the individual, not the school. And the funny thing is, you use very little of what you learn at Tech in the real world.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:48 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,947 posts, read 3,998,611 times
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Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Wasn't trying to make this a GT-UGA thread. We all know the differences and the rankings and we could all join in with the same old jokes.

I was just trying to point out that the state should be proud of these two schools being such great deals.
Yeah. Tech topped the list, and UGA was right there behind them.

For all the problems this state has, it's awesome to know that having excellent colleges is not one of them.
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Old 10-06-2012, 03:44 AM
 
Location: Inman Park
402 posts, read 569,230 times
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Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
No don't kid yourself, research takes precedence over teaching. i had a "facts of Georgia Tech life" talk with a prof over lunch years ago. And sadly, research is what Tech is really about. Undergrad teaching is a cash cow that profs have to do and if the class load for a prof is increased it's because the prof isn't bringing in enough grants. That prof told me that any talk about the importance of "teaching" at Tech is just lip service. Great teachers won't be kept by GT unless they do good research and bring in more money than it costs Tech to pay them. I can understand why one of my profs said at the beginning of a class that "I don't care about undergraduates". GT profs are not as receptive of undergrad students with questions after class in their offices as say Georgia State or Kennesaw State profs. Given a choice, most GT profs would rather not teach undergrands. I recall one of my GT profs pleading with the class to sign up for the next semester of his course so there would be enough to make it. Otherwise he would "have to teach Calculus"...and he rolled his eyes.

Do not make the mistake of thinking Georgia Tech is first and foremost a teaching school. It's not...it is a research school. Probably more suited for graduate students.

As for the rankings, they are judging the quality of the faculty which means research. There is no assessment about how well they teach. And a lot of that reputation comes from the graduate studies and that is what is more closely linked to research than undergrad classes.
Lol, Tech just built a huge building, the Clough Undergrad Commons, and I mean HUGE, specifically for teaching and mentoring freshmen and other undergrads. Get your facts straight.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:20 AM
 
Location: South Carolina
1,991 posts, read 3,401,107 times
Reputation: 891
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLifer View Post
I don't disagree that there is pro-GT bias among Atlanta companies. However, for an engineering position it is not exactly "hilarious" to give preference to a GT grad over a Harvard grad. Harvard engineering is not even considered to be in the top ten engineering programs. GT's advantage over Harvard for ENGINEERING positions does make sense, even in cities other than Atlanta. My opinion.

US News & World Report ranks Harvard #18 among US engineering schools, so it IS a top engineering school, and if one buys much into the list, then #18 out of (how many total engineering schools in the US?) is not a whole lot different in quality than a top 10 school on the list. But again, these lists have a lot to do with research, while at the same time, what most parents and students are searching for has nothing to do with research.

So, for example, a manufacturing company hiring engineers to go into its manufacturing facilities would have very LITTLE reason to care about engineering research at universities in general, and only what research is being done on an application to that company's business. So schools which have lots of top research in general don't automatically give a particular business an advantage in hiring from that school. In such a case, that business (assumed somewhere not in the Atlanta area) would have no real reason to hire a GT grad over a Harvard engineering grad except where location is a factor (a company in Alabama might hire an engineer from the South over one from the Northeast at entry because of fears of the Northeasterner getting homesick and leaving the job after 2 years).

Bottom line, most engineering companies preferencing a top 10 school's graduates over other schools' graduates (when the ranking is really all about research), is a lot like favoring a name brand cholestorol drug over a generic heart drug used for the same purpose- just because the name brand's company is tops in the industry at cancer research. Doing so would be faulty logic, but it's simply amazing how often in this country marketing trumps data and logic in people's minds. And the "top engineering schools" list is a marketing tool that, logically speaking, is based on research prominence. But it's amazing how many parents and students who in all reality DON'T care about research draw conclusions about engineering schools based on marketing tools BASED on research.
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Old 10-06-2012, 11:27 AM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,386,539 times
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Do you even work as an engineer? Almost everything you are saying is incorrect. Companies prefer top 10 engineering school grads because they are the hardest schools to get into in the world, which pretty much guarantees a graduate is going to be top notch.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:24 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,125,118 times
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Originally Posted by Nanosolar View Post
Lol, Tech just built a huge building, the Clough Undergrad Commons, and I mean HUGE, specifically for teaching and mentoring freshmen and other undergrads. Get your facts straight.
It’s not feast or famine. GT has and will support its undergraduate programs…but teaching is not Tech’s primary focus. It took a very long time before GT built the Clough Undergraduate Learning Commons. It’s mostly a study hall with learning support. They had to include classroom space in order to get money from the state of Georgia. With enrollment growing, the library was bursting at the seams so GT needed additional study space and a place to consolidate its learning support programs. But Clough would take a while as other projects took precedence. The Marcus Nanotechnology Center for instance would come before Clough. And pushing GT to build it was UGA's Zell Miller Learning Center which I believe is even bigger…so GT had to have one too. Clough is the first academic building for Tech in a long time. Everything else has been mostly for research.

GT is about research first above all else…including teaching. I learned that early as I found that professors had little time for me, even during posted office hours. They’d rather push you off to the TAs. That’s one reason why Calculus has recitation classes as it frees the prof from a bit of that drudgery.

Again, the first thing that should be told to every entering freshman at Tech is that GT is a research, not a teaching, school. GT will help you with learning support but that doesn’t include the faculty. They have more important things to do than teach you.
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Old 10-06-2012, 12:36 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,125,118 times
Reputation: 1777
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Originally Posted by rzzz View Post
Do you even work as an engineer? Almost everything you are saying is incorrect. Companies prefer top 10 engineering school grads because they are the hardest schools to get into in the world, which pretty much guarantees a graduate is going to be top notch.
From my experience, they go back to schools where they've gotten good people before regardless of what US News says.
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