U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 11-28-2016, 12:50 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,552 posts, read 8,612,923 times
Reputation: 5052

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
In addition to costs for insurance you would be assessed to cover a separate D&O insurance policy for the board members personally. Most of these organizations are established with provisions that requires the organization to indemnify the board members. Since the organization's debts are secured by your house, your house is now the security not only for any alleged liability the organization would have relating to the lake but also for costs for defending (and paying off judgments against) HOA board members. In addition to these exposures, your assessments would have to include operational costs. Finally, you will find all sorts of additional fees showing up when you try to sell including "transfer" fees, certificate of compliance fees, resale certificate fees, administrative transfer fees, etc. It's a total racket and in no way beneficial to you or your property.

If financial loss due to an accident was truly what they are seeking to protect against then those who are concerned can purchase their own insurance policy. There is no reason to agree - and every reason to oppose - allowing your house to be security for the debts of the HOA corporation they are trying to scare people into forming. There is no upside for the homeowner with the HOA.
Wow, in what neighborhood are the private residences security for the debts of the HOA? Curious. I live in a HOA neighborhood, and that is not the case, nor is it the case in any other neighborhood that I know of.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 11-29-2016, 11:41 AM
 
2,741 posts, read 3,161,106 times
Reputation: 2925
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Wow, in what neighborhood are the private residences security for the debts of the HOA? Curious. I live in a HOA neighborhood, and that is not the case, nor is it the case in any other neighborhood that I know of.
Under normal corporate law, members/shareholders are not responsible for the debts/obligations of the corporate entity. However, the same restrictive covenants that obligate you to be a member by virtue of owning the property also authorize the HOA corporation to assess you and provide for a forecloseable lien against your property to collect those assessments. The assessments include payments for the debts of the HOA corporation whether in lump sum or over time. Frequently, the HOA board does not need your permission to incur debt including by borrowing for new capital infrastructure. Of course it doesn't need "permission" if it a monetary judgment is imposed against it either.

So although you might not have previously realized it, yes your house is security for the debt of the HOA corporation - and it is the case in all the other neighborhoods burdened with involuntary membership HOAs. This is also one reason why there is an industry of shadowy lenders offering loans with really bad terms to HOA boards.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2016, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,552 posts, read 8,612,923 times
Reputation: 5052
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Under normal corporate law, members/shareholders are not responsible for the debts/obligations of the corporate entity. However, the same restrictive covenants that obligate you to be a member by virtue of owning the property also authorize the HOA corporation to assess you and provide for a forecloseable lien against your property to collect those assessments. The assessments include payments for the debts of the HOA corporation whether in lump sum or over time. Frequently, the HOA board does not need your permission to incur debt including by borrowing for new capital infrastructure. Of course it doesn't need "permission" if it a monetary judgment is imposed against it either.

So although you might not have previously realized it, yes your house is security for the debt of the HOA corporation - and it is the case in all the other neighborhoods burdened with involuntary membership HOAs. This is also one reason why there is an industry of shadowy lenders offering loans with really bad terms to HOA boards.
The HOA can lien my home if I do not pay my HOA fees as due. But they cannot lien my home for the entirety of the HOA's financial obligations. At least not in my HOA. Fortunately, our HOA is very well run by ethical folks who care for the community and are prudent with its finances.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2016, 11:50 AM
 
2,741 posts, read 3,161,106 times
Reputation: 2925
Quote:
Originally Posted by kemcha View Post
While I hate to be the one to tell you this, rcsteiner, you are sadly misinformed. It's true that there are some good HOA's out there, but the majority of HOAs that exist are nothing more than useless, power-hungry entities that do nothing but harass the homeowners that exist under their sphere of influence.

Far as HOAs go, if you have owned your home in a neighborhood before there was an HOA, and an HOA is formed in your neighborhood after you have purchased your home, it doesn't matter how many of your neighborhoods vote to form an HOA, you still cannot be forced to join that HOA. It is your option of whether you want to join or not. While you wouldn't have a vote in any elections for the HOA, in the event you decide not to join, you still have the right to show up at HOA meetings and voice any problems you have with your neighbors, as they would be obligated to listen to your concerns.

It's a matter of law that you can't be forced into joining an HOA, if you owned your home before it was formed. Now, if you decide to purchase a home where an HOA is established, then you are bound to that HOA until that HOA is disbanded. The best way to go is to get with your neighbors, form a private HOA not governed by corporate interests where residents help pay for the upkeep of common areas and keep the neighborhood clean, possibly even pitching in to pay for a private security force. That way, you don't have to worry about your HOA becoming too power-hungry.
Although I agree with your negative assessment of HOAs, unfortunately you can be forced into one after-the-fact.

The reason is that the restrictive covenants for all the lots can typically be amended by a vote of some percentage of the lot owners. The outcome is binding on all lot owners - not that I agree with this, I'm just stating the general legal principle.

So what happens is someone looking to control everyone else (or to avoid a financial liability) goes around fear mongering in order to scare people into believing they need an HOA or would be better off with one which of course is not true. They get the required percentage of property owners to vote in favor of amending the restrictive covenants to impose involuntary membership in the HOA, liens, and assessments. Then all homeowners are forced to have to pay into the HOA to avoid being foreclosed on. The "pro-HOAers" now have a war chest to wreak havoc on the other property owners.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2016, 11:57 AM
 
2,741 posts, read 3,161,106 times
Reputation: 2925
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
The HOA can lien my home if I do not pay my HOA fees as due. But they cannot lien my home for the entirety of the HOA's financial obligations. At least not in my HOA. Fortunately, our HOA is very well run by ethical folks who care for the community and are prudent with its finances.
In most states, the HOA already has a lien - before you ever purchased the property. It is a "charging lien" that can never be paid off so long as the HOA corporation exists. In some states the lien is a statutory one. Sure the amount might be zero today but next week it could be a few thousand. States have difference procedures as to how/when that lien or the lien amount is recognized.

At a minimum your house is security for whatever the HOA can assess you for. If the HOA is limited to assessing you for say 180th of the debt (based upon the number of lots in the subdivision) then your house is security for 180th of the debt. If the HOA can assess to make up for bad debt then your house can be security for a much larger percentage of the debt.

Not all expenses are pro-rata. If the HOA racks up large expenses in a suit against you then your house is security for 100% of that debt. This is one of the reasons you will find HOA attorneys offering contingency fee representation to an HOA board to stir the pot in a subdivision.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2016, 11:58 AM
 
Location: Left coast
2,321 posts, read 1,055,312 times
Reputation: 3211
What can you expect from a HOA,
haven't read all 11 pages but just in case this wasn't brought up before:

My mom loves to garden, and since she's in Florida with its tropical climate, she wanted to experiment with mango, papaya and other tropical fruit (she even plants the top of every pineapple she eats and a year later has the most delicious perfectly ripe fruit), but the HOA has strict rules about only landscaping in the front yard no gardening...

ALso I kept hens for fresh eggs for awhile (they are allowed in almost all cities now) and she was considering a couple, but the HOA forbids them...

so things like the above... I find them fairly restrictive (I lived in a condo for 20 years and I will never do that either, what a pain!)
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 11-29-2016, 01:41 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,552 posts, read 8,612,923 times
Reputation: 5052
Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
In most states, the HOA already has a lien - before you ever purchased the property. It is a "charging lien" that can never be paid off so long as the HOA corporation exists. In some states the lien is a statutory one. Sure the amount might be zero today but next week it could be a few thousand. States have difference procedures as to how/when that lien or the lien amount is recognized.

At a minimum your house is security for whatever the HOA can assess you for. If the HOA is limited to assessing you for say 180th of the debt (based upon the number of lots in the subdivision) then your house is security for 180th of the debt. If the HOA can assess to make up for bad debt then your house can be security for a much larger percentage of the debt.

Not all expenses are pro-rata. If the HOA racks up large expenses in a suit against you then your house is security for 100% of that debt. This is one of the reasons you will find HOA attorneys offering contingency fee representation to an HOA board to stir the pot in a subdivision.
Interesting. Thanks for all of the info. You must be a HOA or Real Estate attorney!
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-12-2016, 01:50 PM
 
7 posts, read 24,021 times
Reputation: 11
Sorry to break this to you, but that's incorrect. If you purchased your home before the HOA was formed, you simply cannot be forced to join that HOA. Personally, I don't know where you got that idea from but it's simply not true. The only way you can be forced to join an HOA is if the HOA existed in the neighborhood before you moved in and purchased your home.

There was a lawsuit filed against one homeowner who purchased his home in an area where there was a pre-existing HOA. The home-owner couldn't even put up a for sale sign on his property because the residents complained to the HOA. Fighting with the HOA over a garden he planted resulted in a court battle where the HOA took the home-owner to court. The home-owner won because the laws were ex-post facto -- he'd moved in before the covenants were written and that the HOA rules governing the HOA members were unenforceable to this lone home-owner. The home-owner had the last laugh as he expanded his gaudy garden, much to the ire of the HOA members.

Source: Straight Dope Message Board - View Single Post - Can I be forced to join an HOA that did not exist when I bought the house?

IC_delight, what I'm saying is that if you owned your home before the HOA was established in your neighborhood or before the covenants were written, then there is nothing the HOA can do to you as a homeowner as long as you don't sign the paperwork to become a member of the HOA.

Just do some research. I found this out years ago, doing some research on HOAs when they sprang up like locusts in this country.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IC_deLight View Post
Although I agree with your negative assessment of HOAs, unfortunately you can be forced into one after-the-fact.

The reason is that the restrictive covenants for all the lots can typically be amended by a vote of some percentage of the lot owners. The outcome is binding on all lot owners - not that I agree with this, I'm just stating the general legal principle.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-01-2017, 03:56 PM
 
3 posts, read 1,216 times
Reputation: 10
I am closing on my house this Monday in a new development with only 6 homes currently lived in. They are building. We were told that some day an HOA may come into play costing us $100 yearly or so because ther is nothing to collect for except a small amount do grass at the entrance which is still incomplete. Well just today 2 days before closing my realtor told me that there was going to be an HOA fee starting in July of $200 monthly. This is a deal breaker for me. What are my rights, so I have to accept this and close
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 04-02-2017, 08:10 AM
 
4,240 posts, read 2,816,756 times
Reputation: 2758
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mitzibear View Post
I am closing on my house this Monday in a new development with only 6 homes currently lived in. They are building. We were told that some day an HOA may come into play costing us $100 yearly or so because ther is nothing to collect for except a small amount do grass at the entrance which is still incomplete. Well just today 2 days before closing my realtor told me that there was going to be an HOA fee starting in July of $200 monthly. This is a deal breaker for me. What are my rights, so I have to accept this and close
$200 monthly is a pretty steep HOA fee for just a few homes. What are you getting for $200 a month? What amenities are there? The HOA fee in my neighborhood was $238 until this year, and was under $200 for a period before that. For that $238, we have a gated entry with 24-hour guard, all landscaping, trash service, dog park, swimming pool with restrooms, all exterior maintenance on the buildings (painting, gutter cleaning, deck staining, wood replacement), exterior and interior pest control, building insurance, on-site property manager, and numerous other things. It's gone up somewhat since for some major maintenance issues. This is for townhomes, not a condo building.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top