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Old 10-03-2012, 04:53 PM
 
6,612 posts, read 6,539,681 times
Reputation: 4045

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rzzz View Post
Yeah, I believe that. Or even if it does happen, I'll be 100 years old, and it still won't go anywhere I need to go. I'm not sure why rail would be inevitable, it certainly hasn't been a priority in any other sunbelt city.
What are you talking about "if rail happens"? Rail has been successfully operating in Atlanta for 35 years and is currently being expanded. It will continue to operate in the future and will undoubtedly expand due to overwhelming demand and increasing need as Atlanta grows.

I don't guess I need to list all of the current/recent rail projects in southern cities...you obviously can read and if you want to know about them you will. I don't quite get the comments you're making - it's like you are oblivious to what IS.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:39 PM
 
7,688 posts, read 9,532,497 times
Reputation: 5657
Yes, if rail keeps expanding at the rate it has been, MARTA will have a station at Northridge by 2018, Holcomb Bridge by 2025, Mansell by 2033, and Haynes Bridge by 2040.

I don't think the rate at which Atlanta's rail is expanding will create a robust system within any of our lifetimes unless we start doing something different.
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Old 10-03-2012, 06:53 PM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,383,559 times
Reputation: 2167
Yeah, this is what I mean. The timeframe is so long I'm not sure it's even interesting to debate.
The belt line rail is cool, though. But it just doesn't go anywhere I need to be.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:00 PM
 
Location: Here and There
317 posts, read 426,680 times
Reputation: 493
Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
When will the legislatures in the gold dome learn that adding more lanes or converting lanes to HOT will not relieve congestion. What we need to do is use the money allocated for the HOT lanes and implement GDOT's commuter rail plan. Adding road capacity is not the answer, we need more transit in metro Atlanta and commuter rail is the cheapest and most efficient plan.
For the life of me, I don't know why the metro Atlanta area and the Georgia DOT are so averse to building better/more roads? Road capacity is very much needed and the fact that no one is doing anything about it is going to really hurt the area for many years to come.

I was born and raised in the Atlanta area and recently relocated to Dallas, TX (great job opportunity). The road projects going on right now are beyond anything I have ever seen in Atlanta. Yes, we have tolls here, but I would much rather pay for a toll if it means getting to work or home faster. Plus, more/better roads/infrastructure attract companies that bring great jobs with them!

For those of you who are familiar with I-635 (LBJ) in Dallas, you may be interested in viewing what the new road will look like in 4 more years (video below). The area is a mess right now, but it is not a complete nightmare. For those of you who are not familiar with the area, just think about what I-285 currently looks like.


LBJ Express Project Video - YouTube
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:14 PM
 
7,688 posts, read 9,532,497 times
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I agree, I don't understand the mentality that adding capacity does not relieve congestion.

It does. It has to. It's simple arithmetic.

That it doesn't violates common sense, yet it's the favorite argument of the rail bandwagon. Yeah, I'd love to see rail, too. But since we're not going to, at least not in any kind of meaningful way, why don't we add some capacity? It certainly seems better than not having rail and not adding capacity to me.
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Old 10-03-2012, 07:29 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,908 posts, read 3,707,121 times
Reputation: 2465
To what end? Do you really want twenty lane highways? How do you propose we add lanes to the connector? Bulldoze Grady? Take down a few skyscrapers?

Adding road capacity won't relieve congestion as quickly, nor as long-term, nor as cost-effectively as rail will.

"But since we're not going to..."
The only reason we aren't going to is because people like you will keep saying for years "well since we're not going to see rail, why don't we add to the roads?" Rail is steadily gaining traction, and depending on the results of November, we may see considerable interest in rail projects. But it's not going to happen with a deafist "we should just give up because it won't happen" attitude.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:22 PM
 
Location: Searching n Atlanta
788 posts, read 1,684,427 times
Reputation: 340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I agree, I don't understand the mentality that adding capacity does not relieve congestion.

It does. It has to. It's simple arithmetic.

That it doesn't violates common sense, yet it's the favorite argument of the rail bandwagon. Yeah, I'd love to see rail, too. But since we're not going to, at least not in any kind of meaningful way, why don't we add some capacity? It certainly seems better than not having rail and not adding capacity to me.

Adding lanes only relieves congestion in the short term, but once more people start using the lane, congestion skyrockets right back up. And another thing, there is only so wide a highway/road needs to be before it just becomes ridiculous. Here is a study on adding lanes and congestion relief.

Building more roads only relieves your wallet, not traffic congestion

I do think that traffic congestion should be worked on, on both fronts. With better mass transit options and road infrastructure projects.
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Old 10-03-2012, 09:58 PM
 
7,688 posts, read 9,532,497 times
Reputation: 5657
That study is assinine and completely anecdotal. It surmises that if you build more lanes, traffic gets worse....therefore, it must be the adding of lanes that made the traffic worse. That's ridiculous. The reason you needed more lanes in the first place is because more people were using the road. When you add lanes, more people will continue to fill them up. But you can't say those people wouldn't have been added anyway and you wouldn't have an even worse problem had you not built them.

If the logic that building more roads creates traffic is true, then the reverse must also be true. In order to reduce traffic, all you have to do is close roads. Maybe we should go on a road closing program. If we make the connector a 2 lane surface street, surely that will fix the problem. Let's get rid of GA 400 so the residents of Alpharetta can finally have a traffic free lifestlye.

Maybe building and extending roads isn't the only solution, but it is most definitely part of the solution. Do you expect all of the commuters, nevermind truckers, vacationers, and everybody else who drives our economy as they are driving vehicles, to sit idly by not moving while we spend billions of dollars on yet more mass transist studies that don't amount to a thing in the way of real action while lawmakers beg taxpayers to voluntarily tax everything they buy because they didn't have the political cajones to fund transportation with the budgets they already have?
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:23 AM
 
Location: Bronx,NY
175 posts, read 175,921 times
Reputation: 133
Ok so we see that this wasnt the smartest move on GDOT Part.
So I suspect they will add more of these to the Metro area and really rack up the Losses And then Say
"We dont have the Money to Start commuter rail"...I wish they would just TRY to startup the Lovejoy Line again just to show folks a diffrent approach to this Traffic situation. It would be nice if it couldve been started first along 85 but that stretch of track isnt approved and funded like Lovejoy...Especially with the MMPT Coming along now...It just seems the GDOT Will avoid Rail as much as They possibly can...Im not Anti-Road But it just seems we cant "Pave" ,and reverse lanes, our way out of this...So what if Rail dosent turn a profit..Its not supposed to...Do schools,police,fire dept Turn profits? ..Anywhere in america??...Didnt think so..The purpose is Efficency to move Residents and offer options..But im beating the dead horse as usual I know...
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Old 10-04-2012, 12:40 AM
 
7,688 posts, read 9,532,497 times
Reputation: 5657
Creating a Lovejoy Line would just give them more ammunition to say "we tried it and nobody rode it."

In order to make rail work, it has to be a line that is needed and wanted, not just by people who support rail on principle, but people who will actually use it. The lines that make the most sense are up to Marietta or to Duluth.

Speaking of existing rail, I looked at that Norfolk Southern line that more or less follows Buford Highway. I don't see why so many studies are needed, to my untrained eye it looks like mass transit rail lines could relatively easily be put down adjacent to that line just like it is intown on the gold line. There's plenty of room for more track on most parcels of land, and where there isn't, the track could be elevated. I don't see why this would cost billions of dollars to do, seems like a no-brainer to me.
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