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Old 10-04-2012, 03:27 PM
 
9,956 posts, read 6,959,813 times
Reputation: 3035

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
If the highways were only going to carry 2,500 trips a day, then, yes. You should wait at that point. This streetcar project is nothing more than a federal transportation money grab that does nothing meaningful but waste the "free" money.
So now your arbitrary $36K per rider cost minimum has switched to a 2,501 initial daily rider minimum for any cost project?
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:33 PM
 
7,727 posts, read 9,595,829 times
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You know me, I said I would have voted for a 3 cent tax if it would have brought heavy rail to Gwinnett. I'm for rail.

The problem is, it's not about money yet, it's about will and trying to get it done. We can worry about the money part when we get there, but for now, transportation money has to be used on projects that can get approved. So you can't say divert $1 billion to rail because there is no plan for rail. Hopefully there will be one day, but right now we have to use the money where it is able to be used.
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Old 10-04-2012, 03:48 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,918 posts, read 3,733,968 times
Reputation: 2481
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
IT IS A STREETCAR. IT IS NOT LIGHT RAIL. I think you are beyond confused because we are talking about the Streetcar project that is currently being constructed downtown AS A STREETCAR AND NOT LIGHT RAIL. What is confusing about this?
WRONG! SO WRONG! Unlike Portland which uses heavier "light rail" vehicles on inter-suburb routes and lighter "streetcars" on two downtown loops, the Atlanta "streetcar" will be a streetcar in name and stopping pattern only! The Siemens S70 (which Portland, UTA and others use on their light rail networks) is a light rail vehicle just as capable of 50-70mph inter-suburb operation as 25mph inner-city operation. The advantage of building Atlanta's "streetcar" to light rail standards is that there won't be any more capital costs expended on integration with the beltline. All that has to be done is run the rails to the beltline, and start running trains. If anything, once the Beltline has light rail, there may not be any more separate "streetcar" with the streetcar stops just being served by Beltline trains making all stops.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
The problem is, it's not about money yet, it's about will and trying to get it done. We can worry about the money part when we get there, but for now, transportation money has to be used on projects that can get approved. So you can't say divert $1 billion to rail because there is no plan for rail. Hopefully there will be one day, but right now we have to use the money where it is able to be used.
And thinking like that will ensure there never will be rail plans. If we stifle road expansion and road-only congestion mitigation, people will come around to the better idea.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:11 PM
 
7,727 posts, read 9,595,829 times
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Quote:
And thinking like that will ensure there never will be rail plans. If we stifle road expansion and road-only congestion mitigation, people will come around to the better idea.
So, let me get this straight....you think the dept. of transportation should say we have all this money burning holes in our pockets. We could use it to build newer and better roads. But we think that you need a better solution, so we're going to sit on it doing nothing until traffic gets so bad that you decided to ask us for rail.

I don't think that would be very smart politically. I don't think anyone will do this. The politicians are elected to do what people want, not hold them hostage.
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:30 PM
 
Location: Decatur, GA
4,918 posts, read 3,733,968 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
So, let me get this straight....you think the dept. of transportation should say we have all this money burning holes in our pockets. We could use it to build newer and better roads. But we think that you need a better solution, so we're going to sit on it doing nothing until traffic gets so bad that you decided to ask us for rail.

I don't think that would be very smart politically. I don't think anyone will do this. The politicians are elected to do what people want, not hold them hostage.
Yes, I do. Unless we save the money we have, there won't be ANY money left to build the rail!
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Old 10-04-2012, 05:31 PM
 
7,727 posts, read 9,595,829 times
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Well, I certainly hope that the trains in Fantasyland are faster and more on time than the ones here in the real world.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:33 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,737 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
So now your arbitrary $36K per rider cost minimum has switched to a 2,501 initial daily rider minimum for any cost project?
My arbitrary $36,000 per rider cost? You keep citing that like it is some hard rule. What are you talking about.

What should dictate what is a good plan? A logical return on investment. You seem to try to make the argument that $90 million for 2,500 trips is a good ROI. I don't think it is. That makes no sense and the prospect of one day maybe possibly connecting to another rail extension someday does not hold enough promise to justify this boondoggle.

But you can go ahead and keep trollin'. I'll keep winning with logic. It is what I do, son.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:34 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,737 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattCW View Post
Yes, I do. Unless we save the money we have, there won't be ANY money left to build the rail!
Get that federal handout! Woo Hoo! I gotsta get mine! Who cares if the project offers little in return. I'm gettin mine.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:39 PM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,492,476 times
Reputation: 409
Gtcorndog

How many roads and lanes do you think we should build? As congestion grows we will keep getting more roads and lanes. Is there no end? Should Atlanta turn into a giant highway before we make a long term solution?
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:56 PM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,395,070 times
Reputation: 2167
Should Atlanta "turn into" a giant highway?
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