AJC: First year of I-85 HOT lane brings drivers but less money than expected (Atlanta: home, buy)

[JoeTarheel]

Originally Posted by rzzz

This is the only thing you need to know. Arguing is moot, because rail in ATL isn't going to happen.

Do you actually believe that? I have news for you...rail in Atlanta has been happening since the 70s and is currently being expanded as we speak. The big package didn't pass for numerous reasons, but that doesn't mean that there won't be anymore rail expansion. Of course there will...it's inevitable.

[westau]

Originally Posted by cqholt

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Now your just comparing apples to oranges.

The planned elevated HOT lanes will never make back the cost and environmental degradation. Those horrible elevated lanes will decrease the property value anywhere close to the freeway. Have we all not learned in 60 years or freeway building that adding more lanes never solves congestion. People will change their driving route to take advantage of the new lanes.
Now corndog, I know your a proponent of commuter rail. Don't you think the $1 billion for the 75/575 HOT lanes would be better spent implementing a metro wide commuter rail system that would serve more people than just the several 100,000 commuters that live in those 2 counties and travel that corridor?

I haven't seen anything that says the 75/575 toll lanes will be elevated. In Henry County it would be one lane in the middle of the interstate median and in Cobb/Cherokee it would either be that or two lanes off to one side of the interstate. Where did you see that it would be elevated?

[cqholt]

I haven't seen anything that says the 75/575 toll lanes will be elevated. In Henry County it would be one lane in the middle of the interstate median and in Cobb/Cherokee it would either be that or two lanes off to one side of the interstate. Where did you see that it would be elevated?

Where in the world is there enough ROW to place 2 lanes next to 75? I read in an article at least a year ago that they would be elevated, but I could be mistaken.

Do you actually believe that? I have news for you...rail in Atlanta has been happening since the 70s and is currently being expanded as we speak. The big package didn't pass for numerous reasons, but that doesn't mean that there won't be anymore rail expansion. Of course there will...it's inevitable.

Agree, rail does a great job of moving more than 250,000 people in Fulton and DeKalb counties everyday. Rail worked great for one hundred years in Atlanta before the car became cheap and freeways were built.
Let us agree, more roads of the suburbs and more transit of Fulton and DeKalb counties? That way everybody wins!

[rzzz]

Originally Posted by JoeTarheel

Do you actually believe that? I have news for you...rail in Atlanta has been happening since the 70s and is currently being expanded as we speak. The big package didn't pass for numerous reasons, but that doesn't mean that there won't be anymore rail expansion. Of course there will...it's inevitable.

Yeah, I believe that. Or even if it does happen, I'll be 100 years old, and it still won't go anywhere I need to go. I'm not sure why rail would be inevitable, it certainly hasn't been a priority in any other sunbelt city.

[westau]

Originally Posted by cqholt

Where in the world is there enough ROW to place 2 lanes next to 75? I read in an article at least a year ago that they would be elevated, but I could be mistaken.

Agree, rail does a great job of moving more than 250,000 people in Fulton and DeKalb counties everyday. Rail worked great for one hundred years in Atlanta before the car became cheap and freeways were built.
Let us agree, more roads of the suburbs and more transit of Fulton and DeKalb counties? That way everybody wins!

Here is a quote from a recent article:

"
Lee referenced the $950 million, 30-mile Northwest Corridor project along I-75 and 575 in Cobb and Cherokee counties expected to open in the spring of 2018. The project will build two new tolled reversible lanes along the west side of I-75 between its interchanges with I-285 and I-575. The lanes will be separate from the existing interstate and carry traffic south during morning commute hours and north in the evenings. North of the I-575 interchange one new, reversible lane will be added in the I-75 center median to Hickory Grove Road, and a similar new lane will extend along I-575 to Sixes Road." [LEFT]
Read more: The Marietta Daily Journal - Cobb transit chief Bus system would take ‘10 12’ years



I am assuming along the west side means next to it and not elevated. If it was elevated I agree that would be a waste of money. I think you would have to widen a few bridges but I don't remember any areas on the west side of I-75 that are too tight to things off the interstate in that area.
[/LEFT]

[billl]

Originally Posted by westau

I am assuming along the west side means next to it and not elevated. If it was elevated I agree that would be a waste of money. I think you would have to widen a few bridges but I don't remember any areas on the west side of I-75 that are too tight to things off the interstate in that area.

There's a few buildings that are in the way. Dave & Brusters for example. And the Metal Coaters plant just south of Hwy 5. It gets really tight around the ramps for the existing exits too. But, hey, once the state pays rock-bottom prices to acquire the ROW via eminent domain, they will be all set.

[westau]

Originally Posted by billl

There's a few buildings that are in the way. Dave & Brusters for example. And the Metal Coaters plant just south of Hwy 5. It gets really tight around the ramps for the existing exits too. But, hey, once the state pays rock-bottom prices to acquire the ROW via eminent domain, they will be all set.

I think both have room for 2 lanes but not much on the side, it depends on how they are planning it I guess. The Metal Coaters would be more of an issue than Dave and Busters with just parking lot being the closest to the interstate for them.

[Mishap]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

Purposefully enacting legislation to make something that is economically efficient become inefficient solely to try to encourage something that is economically inefficient become efficient is pure stupidity.

Cars aren't economically efficient. Run the numbers on how much it costs to own/insure/maintain/fuel/park your car and then add in the costs of infrastructure built around providing a paved roadway to your door. We massively subsidize them every day w/ tax revenue to build highways, traffic control infrastructure (as well as trauma centers/lifeflights/etc), millions of acres of arable land paved for parking, and add in tons of lost productivity(since our infrastructure is always undersized) as we incentivize distant developments made possible by a car but honestly shouldn't exist. There's no reason an old acquaintance needs to commute between McDonough and Duluth daily and then complain about traffic on FB. We as a society subsidize this behavior a whole lot more than we subsidize trains.

Sure it's convenient to drive out to the store for a gallon of milk whenever you want but that doesn't make it economically efficient. I love my car but I'm actually proud of how little I've driven it lately as I've been taking the train to work. My Marta pass is $95/mon but my car not operating still costs far more than that in insurance/parking/depreciation. If I drove it, I'd have to add another $0.17-0.20 in gas plus depreciation and repairs/consumables. I will love the day that Google and others' autonomous cars means we can car share at a far higher rate. You could rent that behemoth truck that shows up on your doorstep only on weekends you need to make a run to Home Depot and take a commuter electric car the rest of the year or take a train.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by tonygeorgia

So they lost close to $1 million

How can they lose money? Roads pay for themselves!

This makes it sound like we're subsidizing automobile transit.

[berkeleylake]

Originally Posted by gtcorndog

That is pretty bad. This truly was a poorly planned project. It added no capacity and robbed existing capacity. I am in favor of HOT lanes that add new capacity to the road network like the I-75 plan, because otherwise, the needed increase in capacity won't happen.

78% is still better than MARTA's 31.8% fare recovery rate.

Indeed, it was poorly planned. the GDOT will only plan more of these HOT lanes around Atlanta.