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Old 10-09-2012, 10:40 PM
811 posts, read 820,997 times
Reputation: 461


Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Do you mean creationism in the sense that there is some higher power guiding the development of universe, or creationism in the sense that earth is only 6,000 years old?

I can understand the former but the latter seems to fly in the face of the factual data we have.
It actually doesn't fly in the face of data.

For one, the only element that can be dated with any true sense of accuracy is carbon. Carbon can only be dated in the thousands of years. Uranium is highly volatile, nor are the tests using other elements consistent.

Second, sediments can be deposited rather quickly if the conditions are favorable.

Third, fossilization can occur quickly under the right conditions.

Fourth, multiple layers that exists across much of the world indicate the presence of a world-wide flood. These same layers are those the evolutionists use to explain a millions of years argument, believing them to be deposited at a steady rate over time. The problem is that it ignores the way sediment can act.

Fifth, other issues, such as problems with the Law of Thermodynamics, as well as the position of the moon, indicate that the old Earth theory improbable.

The actual evidence very much supports a relatively young Earth.

Old 10-09-2012, 10:51 PM
811 posts, read 820,997 times
Reputation: 461
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
Are any of you scientists or doctors? And if so, do you actually believe that evolution is not a valid scientific theory? Also, do you know that a general "theory" and "scientific theory" are not the same thing. Evolution is a proven scientific phenomenon. I know that some people mix creationism with evolution, which leads me to this...
Evolution doesn't fit the definition of scientific theory. Why? One needs to be able to 1) observe and 2) test, neither of which can one do for something said to have taken place over millions of years.

Do you even know the definition?

I also would like to know the answer because that is a hug deal IMO and strikes to the heart of what the candidate in the OP is speaking about. He believes in the creation story of the bible literally and that the earth is only 6000 years old even though there is a plethora of evidence to the contrary and the creation story does not include many aspects of scientific discovery that has been unearthed in modern history.
What evidence might that be? Something that has been proven to be contradicted by actual science?

The Creation story accounts of everything God created. Sure, it may not mention everything specifically, but it refers to the Heavens (atmosphere, space, Heaven) and the Earth (land, water).

So are you one who believes that there is a higher power which started (created) the universe and as such is the cause of evolution or do you just deny that evolution is a scientific fact?
I don't know about him, but I disagree with evolution because of my faith, and because I am fairly well-versed in science. It is simply illogical if one truly knows science.

I have yet to meet an educated, scientifically focused, person who believes the earth is 6000 years old.
It's your incorrect perception of "educated" that is the problem. If one starts out thinking that someone who disagrees with evolution is not "educated", or that someone who agrees with it is "educated", then you're going to see a self-fulfilling prophecy.

It is too bad that this candidate is showing the state in such a poor light in regards to education. We really need to be leading the way in education and making strides in STEM fields and scientific study, not going back to biblical times.
How is he showing the state in such a poor light? Do you think that even one percent of people in this country are even aware of what representative Broun said? Even then, representative Broun is correct.

Who do you think created this Earth? The God of the Bible, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Why would you deny the God who created you? Do you really believe yourself to be smarter than God?
Old 10-09-2012, 10:54 PM
811 posts, read 820,997 times
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Originally Posted by albion View Post
If it is true that 50% of Americans believe in creationisn, then the US has a huge problem. As I understand it, Republican states are introducing creationism into the classroom to be taught alongside the accepted sciences as a bona fide alternative to evolution, although there is not one iota of evidence that proves creationism has a basis in fact.

To teach this junk science to children is tantamount to child abuse. How can the next generation cope in the world if they are being mistaught & mislead in the classroom. American kids are going to be left behind.
Evolution is junk science. There is not one iota of evidence for it. By the way, natural selection is not evolution.
Old 10-09-2012, 10:57 PM
811 posts, read 820,997 times
Reputation: 461
Originally Posted by rzzz View Post
The US does have a huge problem, and US children have been left behind for decades. If you haven't noticed, the USA has been at the bottom of the developed world for education, child well being and many other quality of life rankings.
That's because it is becoming more ungodly, complete with the breakup of the family. Parents are a backbone for children. When the family is destroyed, the children are hurt. This causes problems with their success in school and mobility in life. Hence, changes in education and quality of life.
Old 10-09-2012, 11:05 PM
811 posts, read 820,997 times
Reputation: 461
Originally Posted by Oleg Bach View Post
Creation- evolution and adaptation are the same thing. We as humans measure time - Nature and eternity do not measure time..because of this fixation on measurement we can not grasp the concept that a second is a million years in the cosmos and a million years is a second...Biblical types see the word "day" in the bible when it talks about creation- the key to the mystery is time...six days could have been six seconds or six trillion years. Science and God are not separated..Darwin did not disprove creation- He performed a minor autopsy on creation...and cut a small part of it into tiny understandable parts and called it evolution..
Science and God are not separated, but evolution and the Big Bang are not science. They're outright fabrications.

You have to believe in literal days because the Bible defines a day as evening and morning. What's more, when Adam was created on the sixth day, a day of rest followed. If Adam were created on the sixth day, and God rested on the seventh day, then a trillion years wouldn't fit, for we have the lineage of Adam to Jesus as outlined in the Bible in the book of Matthew.

Big bang? Yes from a spark of nothing to a huge eternal something...then after eons - it shrinks back to a pin point of nothing- then bangs again- a vibration of sorts...a thought wave...the thought wave of God. Something so timeless that it can not be measured with time...The universe has expanded and collapsed a trillion times...eternity...is not a long time- it is no time.
According to science, matter can't be destroyed. It only changes. Thus, matter from nothing ignores what is known in science.
Old 10-09-2012, 11:09 PM
811 posts, read 820,997 times
Reputation: 461
Originally Posted by albion View Post
The story has broken in Europe as well. I can't believe that any sane person would vote for people like Akin & Broun. Is this what the Republican party has become, a haven for bigotry, ignorance?
The left think that if they apply fallacious arguments of hatred and ignorance, despite evidence, that people will be swayed. Unfortunately, that's probably correct. Most people are sheep. The simply follow popular society, despite whether it is truthful.
Old 10-10-2012, 05:33 AM
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,959,602 times
Reputation: 959
Wearing out my ignore button.
Old 10-10-2012, 07:37 AM
12,159 posts, read 15,033,684 times
Reputation: 7906
If what Sound of Reason is saying is true, that reflects very poorly on this "God" fellow.
Old 10-10-2012, 08:12 AM
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 1,152,726 times
Reputation: 326
Originally Posted by Sound of Reason View Post
You mis-applied the meaning of the establishment clause. It's to prevent a state church. This isn't a state church, but rather a citizen exercising his free exercise of religion.

If what you claim were true, we wouldn't have people swearing on the Bible, congressional prayer, "In God We Trust" on our money, The Ten Commandments in various courtrooms, or the invoking of the Creator in our documents.
No, I didn't mis-apply anything. The Establishment Clause, in addition to preventing a state church, also prohibits the preference by the U.S. government of one religion over another. This is incredibly important.

The Free Exercise Clause is the one you are referring to. I have no problem with citizens exercising their religion -- any religion -- on their own time. But when politicians use their own chosen religion to make laws that apply to all citizens regardless of religion (or lack thereof), then we have a BIG problem. If this is permitted, what's to keep Congress from becoming the Taliban? I realize this is an extreme example, but where do you draw the line? Is it only OK to make religion-based laws when the religion is your religion?

Since you brought it up, "In God We Trust" was added to our money and to the Pledge of Allegiance in the 1950s to combat the perceived godless communist threat. It has nothing to do with the Constitution or the intentions of the founding fathers and mothers. IMO The Ten Commandments do not belong in courtrooms, nor should a bible be used to swear on in court (it's all considered a bunch of fairytales by a large portion of the US population), but that's a whole other topic.
Old 10-10-2012, 08:34 AM
2,665 posts, read 2,175,001 times
Reputation: 1471
Originally Posted by Sound of Reason View Post
As I've shown, it really is a leap of faith to believe in evolution and the Big Bang, considering that the ignore the laws of science.
Well, evolution IS a law of science and has been observed, but I'll concede the point on the Big Bang. While all available data is all but 100% conclusive that it happened, it does violate the conservation of matter principal. I have my own theory about that which may or may not become germane as this conversation progresses.

By the way, what do you say to the afterlife, something also spoken of in the Bible?
I say the existence of an afterlife, of which I happen to believe in, does nothing to validate the Bible, and any similarity to the ACTUAL afterlife and what's in the bible is accidental coincidence.
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