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Old 10-10-2012, 03:14 PM
 
4,570 posts, read 6,382,046 times
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Quote:
The governor opposes video gambling, and the Georgia Lottery Board is hesitant to endorse gaming proposals without support from elected officials and the public.

But developer Dan O’Leary still believes his proposed $1 billion entertainment complex along I-85 near Norcross has a great shot. And Tuesday night he made his case to local officials at a meeting of the Gwinnett Municipal Association, saying the project would boost the state’s ailing HOPE scholarship program, create 2,500 jobs and boost tourism and tax revenue for the entire region.
Developer pitches Norcross entertainment complex | www.ajc.com
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Old 10-10-2012, 03:53 PM
 
7,711 posts, read 9,545,692 times
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What's interesting to me is the AJC poll pretty closely mirrors what a lot of people here, including me, have said:

We'd be likely to be for a proper Vegas style casino done right.
We'd be likely to be against a two bit casino with crappy lottery video slots.

This is going to be a tough sell because virtually nobody, not even people who are for gambling, want a stupid half a$$ casino. So who's left to support an idea like this?

To see what happens to lottery casinos, just take a trip to Victoryland in Alabama. It makes a laundromat in southwest Atlanta look like the pinnacle of culture and education.

We want the Cosmopolitan or Bellagio or nothing.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:32 PM
 
Location: Norcross, GA
195 posts, read 371,385 times
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I would also like to add that the Jimmy Carter bridge across I-85 is one of the most congested roadways in Gwinnett County already, and any attraction of this size would make it basically impassable during the weekly commute.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:15 PM
 
55 posts, read 81,137 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
To see what happens to lottery casinos, just take a trip to Victoryland in Alabama. It makes a laundromat in southwest Atlanta look like the pinnacle of culture and education.
To be fair, gambling isn't technically legal in Alabama, so organizations like Victoryland and Greenetrack aren't really... "real."
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:15 PM
 
Location: ATL
4,688 posts, read 6,408,610 times
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Originally Posted by Brillemeister View Post
I would also like to add that the Jimmy Carter bridge across I-85 is one of the most congested roadways in Gwinnett County already, and any attraction of this size would make it basically impassable during the weekly commute.
Most people are not gambling during rush hours IMO

They will be gambling mostly at night when rush hour is over
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:10 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,266,049 times
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I'm for it. I do want to nitpick over details of the whole development.

How many rooms, convention space, entertainment provided, etc...

I also would rather it just be a whole casino with card tables that also are allowed under the Lottery/Hope program. I'd rather a casino be all or nothing. Let's at least allow the higher classes games in with limits and the ability to help the Hope program. When I think of just the video lottery terminals... I think of a lower-class gambling. I want this to be a higher class thing with other entertainment options that are are only allowed in limited amounts and help fund education programs.

I also feel it would do alot to help the area and introduce a whole new clientele to the area that hasn't existed in a couple of decades.

My other concern.... While I want this, I also feel it is unfair for something like this to be prevented from developing at Underground Atlanta. This was pitched 3-5 years ago. If it is ok for JCB in Gwinnett, then it needs to be ok for Underground ATL downtown. It would do much more to make Atlanta a more lively city for conventions.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:20 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,266,049 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brillemeister View Post
I would also like to add that the Jimmy Carter bridge across I-85 is one of the most congested roadways in Gwinnett County already, and any attraction of this size would make it basically impassable during the weekly commute.
I agree we need to examine and analyze these details carefully. More so... we need to ask ourselves what can we do to make this happen w/o negative effects?

One thing I will point out is when we create the new interchange with I-85 it will increase the capacity on/off the freeway -and- crossing over I-85. The timing is ripe for new development to open along side with the change without making traffic worse or altering traffic patterns (ie. more people will drive towards this interchange over neighboring ones, because of the changes).


The one thing I want to caution with your argument... I grew up near this area and watched change greatly over the decades. It has gone downhill and many of the mid to higher end retail outlets have left the area leaving behind cheaper property values, more traffic, and residents with less expendable income.

If we want the area to get better and become a more mixed community that brings better property values and more opportunities to the existing population we need to support redevelopments that can act as a catalyst to change the area for the better.

Whether or not we allow this particular development, your argument can be used against any type of catalyst site for the area.

The point I'm trying to make isn't that we shouldn't worry about traffic patterns, but we must act to make catalyst sites and changes happen for areas to get better.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:57 AM
 
Location: ๏̯͡๏﴿ Gwinnett-That's a Civil Matter-County
2,117 posts, read 5,098,619 times
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Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
The one thing I want to caution with your argument... I grew up near this area and watched change greatly over the decades. It has gone downhill and many of the mid to higher end retail outlets have left the area leaving behind cheaper property values, more traffic, and residents with less expendable income. )))
Exxxactly. Who did you think was going to use these casinos?
Take a trip down to the casinos that opened up in florida several years ago and see who's using those.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
(((If we want the area to get better and become a more mixed community that brings better property values and more opportunities to the existing population we need to support redevelopments that can act as a catalyst to change the area for the better.)))
The only shred of validity I could see here is in the particular cases where ththe casinos also become entertainment venues and have shopping and restaurants but even in the case of the major ones in florida (Hard Rock, Gulfstream Park etc), they're a flop. And they've flopped even with a never-ending virtually year-round stream of tourists.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
(((The point I'm trying to make isn't that we shouldn't worry about traffic patterns, but we must act to make catalyst sites and changes happen for areas to get better.)))
And the point I'm trying to make is this is just another way to make money from low income earners.
Take a look at what casinos have accomplished elsewhere and you can judge the likelihood of how the area is going to change for the better. (Don't hold your breath)

And Kimbro, to answer your question from the other thread about my 5 page limit, the reason I have imposed that is because after a certain point, in posts like that, people keep having to repeat themselves over and over again while new posters come in and don't bother to read the prior 5 pages of replies.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:10 AM
 
1,114 posts, read 1,940,839 times
Reputation: 700
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
What's interesting to me is the AJC poll pretty closely mirrors what a lot of people here, including me, have said:

We'd be likely to be for a proper Vegas style casino done right.
We'd be likely to be against a two bit casino with crappy lottery video slots.

This is going to be a tough sell because virtually nobody, not even people who are for gambling, want a stupid half a$$ casino. So who's left to support an idea like this?

To see what happens to lottery casinos, just take a trip to Victoryland in Alabama. It makes a laundromat in southwest Atlanta look like the pinnacle of culture and education.

We want the Cosmopolitan or Bellagio or nothing.
You do realize that Cosmo was a $4B project that went through foreclosure during the financial collapse right? It was so outsized that it was too crazy even for Vegas. The developer defaulted on a $760M loan to Deutsche bank so they now own the place. I think you could buy 2/3 of Atlantic City for that kind of money and I think it'd drain virtually every penny metro Atlanta has just to keep the lights on in a place like that. The scale/grandeur of the place would just be way out of line for Atlanta although I'd love to see a massive redevelopment of that area on 85.

What makes Vegas Vegas is it's ability to attract millions of people from around the world and to throw caution to the wind on spending. Want a table at Marquee? $4,000 w/ tip. A bed by the pool during the day is $1,000+. For all the flashiness that is Atlanta, the casino would be out of customers before the paint was dry on the sign.

The people we could attract are the people who go to Harrah's Cherokee (actually much nicer than it used to be), Biloxi, or those quasi-legal slot machines at bodegas around town. We have neither the high rollers nor the entertainment budgets to support anything approaching the ridiculousness of Cosmo. We can only keep our pensioners off the free buses and in our state. Those dead eyed, chain smoking retirees blowing their SS checks on penny slots is all we're ever going to accomplish so long as there's a flight to Vegas. That's if we can keep the anti-gambling religious folks from shutting this type of development down.
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:26 AM
JPD
 
11,871 posts, read 14,480,463 times
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I predict this is going to be a huge flop.
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