Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You can live in the dense core of Atlanta if you choose when you are able to afford it. Let me tell you, you wouldn't be living in any dense core of any city without an above-average salary, so get used to the lower density areas until you are at that level.
I heard having roommates is possible. And computer programmers make an average of 60,000 dollars STARTING WAGE. That's more then enough with a friend or two to make it in a dense urban core. I'm still single and I don't have kids.
And don't try to offend me with the "parent's basement". I choose to live at my parent's house. It saves me money...I already go to school free here with HOPE and scholarships I have received, I have plenty of extra money to spend ON MY SELF. I could easily pay for an apartment somewhere near downtown if I wanted to. I'm saving for the future and to be able to go on trips with friends like the trip to NYC I'm planning on taking with friends in December because of the money I'm saving.
We must have different ideas about "dead". Most downtowns slow down after dark, but there are still sections of downtown Atlanta that are active after 8:00. Try visiting downtown sometime and I'm sure you'll find specific areas that are still relatively busy...I always do.
If you mean that small 3 block area of Peachtree center, then fine, but even then, on weekdays, it's relatively dead.
And by the way, there's no dense core of Atlanta LOL. That's the exact thing I've been saying. If I'm going to live in a dense core, it's definitely won't be Atlanta because there is no dense core to live in rofl.
I have ambitions greater then this southern city. It's exactly hat other people have been saying. It's a big city with a small city mindset. Such a shame because of the potential here.
I think in everyone's enthusiasm for density and disdain for auto culture posters are forgetting one crucial thing: Atlanta IS a sunbelt city. The city is already so full of concrete it literally creates its own weather. What happens with even more density? Dense living is just not all that desirable at 90 degrees with comparable humidity. Walkability is a great thing, but for me, a native southerner, it's simply too hot nearly half the year to do a heckuva lot of walking. I mean, you take the train in, then walk a couple of blocks to work and by the time you get there, you're absolutely unpresentable. Unless offices are going o provide shower facilities it's going to be intolerably smelly in a lot of places. And I say that as someone who routinely walked to markets and such back home, but as a SAHM I didn't have a boss or co-workers to offend. I can't see convincing women especially that walking around in business attire melting their makeup off is a good thing. I mean we are talking about southern women here where looking good is a major part of the culture.
If things were closer you wouldn't have to walk as much in the first place, Walkability is abroad subject. You realize Atlanta a city in the southern US is no where near the equator right? Do have a clue to how many major cities in the world are in much hotter places? The Sunbelt is broad too the southeast is not like the southwest. The political climate started to change in the southeast and with cheaper land cause the southeast boom. Cars are the main reason Sunbelt cities sprawl not grown but sprawled. And I'm into the car culture I go to car shows I completely understand why the car culture is so big here. So I'm a realist at both ends. Some people want the metro to become denser other don't. We pretty much have a endless stock of over built sprawl, we really don't need to be focusing on sprawl growth it will always be there. But the metro needs more urbanity in some areas. I saying metro because realistically not every one wants to move into the city. I'm not anti city or anti suburbs.
True...and that certainly isn't the glamorous living situation people like that often dream about.
Depends on the city.
NYC and maybe San Fran are the only cities in America I would consider getting a roommate in due to what those cities offer, but I would still rather not have one.
One more time, are you really telling me there is a large contingent of folk taking public transportation in NOLA? I've lived in NOLA and Biloxi and nothing is further fom the truth. Nor is it happening in Houston or Dallas, or heck for that matter LA! What do all these cities have in common: It's hot for much of the year. There's a reason why much of the Sunbelt didn't take off until the 50s and 60s: AIR CONDITIONING! Are people walking around in NOLA and Charleston? Sure, tourists! But your average person who actually lives there is not taking public transportation or walking for blocks to work. People walk and bike for exercise, but NOT to work.
As I understand it Sao Paulo is much like NYC, people use transit because there's no other way. I would also guess that like Spain and Portugal they have a siesta culture where not much is going on in the heat of the day. My guess is places in South Asia are much the same.
I don't see Atlanta ever reaching the point where it's public transportation or nothing. If it does the mindset might change, but right now, yes, it's too darned hot, and getting hotter. Much as you and others might hate it, the notion of density in this climate and geography and culture will have to be adapted to suit US. Transplanting some northeastern lifestyle here is likely to be met with skpticism if not outright scorn. The heat is a factor that has tobe taken into consideration, otherwise you're literally whistling Dixie in the wind.
Well Roslyn I want to sidestep this other debate and get back to my Gwinnett Place example. I'm trying to address what you're saying, but I think purpose and ideas are slipping through the cracks with other arguments.
My thing is some people want urban or semi-urban living, but they also want the perks that go along with it... a nice sense of place, walk to shops, restaurants, etc.. Many of these people are choice workers companies also want to attract, especially younger ages.
So the reason I say this is I want to foster an environment where work centers can establish themselves in multiple places... mini-perimeter centers, buckheads, midtowns, etc.. if I can call it that.
The premise is more people can continue to live in the neighborhoods they are use to living in, but still get to work with a shorter drive. It is actually alot of what ARC regional planning has been trying for in recent decades. There will be more cars on a long stretch of freeway overall, but more people can fit on the same limited capacity because they are commuting shorter on average. The concept helps drivers and suburban dwellers alike and helps increase their property values. The key is to make a center that fits everyone needs... the younger creative class, the older creative class, the businesses looking for a place to locate, and the retailers and restaurants that are looking for an attractive market and fit them all together.
Transit will make it so job centers are connected and people can still commute really long distances if a job opportunity presents itself, but creating more business nodes will make it so more people can still drive to work by driving less.
As for my earlier Chamblee analogy... a urban residential neighborhood is starting to form around a transit station. The thing to remember is its not for everyone. People are choosing, using it to cut costs, or are younger, but the more people who do it out of choice.... the more people are not on the roads for long distances.
The catch is it takes work from the local government to put a little extra added investment into parks, streetscapes, retail nodes, etc... But on a good side... that extra cost is typically less than the cost of producing more exurban to suburban roadways to grow outwards. It is a difference of where you put the money for added residential growth.
Parking is certainly an issue. Most business offices in places like perimeter and Buckhead have their own parking, as welll as most shopping complexes. Atlantic Station is another good example of parking integration. I think the big parking problems comes with the small shops. They are too small to have their own parking deck by themselves, as in Decatur... so it often takes city investment to create parking. In turn they charge for parking. It exists, but in that context you're paying for it.
And by the way, there's no dense core of Atlanta LOL. That's the exact thing I've been saying. If I'm going to live in a dense core, it's definitely won't be Atlanta because there is no dense core to live in rofl.
I have ambitions greater then this southern city. It's exactly hat other people have been saying. It's a big city with a small city mindset. Such a shame because of the potential here.
Atlanta core is actually is built to have 331,314 in 36.9 sq mi in 1950 before urban renewal your just comparing Atlanta, to the standard of Chicago which is beyond ridiculous. We should focus on Atlanta becoming more unique to stand out. Because Atlanta is never going to look Philly.
But no your just thinking city core vs suburbs when a lot posters are saying both. Atlanta is not St Louis, a very dense core with weak suburbs. Atlanta regional needs beyonds that Atlanta is multi core.
Metro Atlanta is projected gain 2 to 3 million by 2040. Realistically not everyone is going move into the city of Atlanta. I believe a realistic high goal by then will be to double to 800,000. The rest of the people are going into the suburbs. We don't need to drastically sprawl we have enough of the that. Some of the suburbs need to become urban. Believe me I not thinking small town I thinking 7 to 8 million people metropolis.
Metro Atlanta is projected gain 2 to 3 million by 2040. Realistically not everyone is going move into the city of Atlanta. I believe a realistic high goal by then will be to double to 800,000. The rest of the people are going into the suburbs. We don't need to drastically sprawl we have enough of the that. Some of the suburbs need to become urban. Believe me I not thinking small town I thinking 7 to 8 million people metropolis.
and I'll add by saying I think its a realistic goal to have 15-20% of that growth in the suburbs be denser destination centers to help limit how far houses sprawl out and make job centers more accessible to more people. There are enough singles, empty nesters, etc... that want low maintenance/high amenity life styles. The trick to not to make everyone want to live this way and make every bit of existing land dense, but to create the activity nodes....preferably where we've already built expensive infrastructure.
At night, downtown is dead. During the day, it's vibrant, but this is expected because of a mix of GSU students and business folks. After 8 pm, it dies down dramatically. It's like a ghost town.
Go to Edgewood Ave in Sweet Auburn after 8pm. The bars and restaurants that line the street are busy. Its the same street that the Downtown Streetcar will traverse.
Okay, now this makes sense and sounds more like a southern form of density adapted for our particular culture, climate and geography. I really like the idea of little pockets of density surrounded by less dense areas. That makes more sense for us I think, and seems to be what is already organically happening.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
Well Roslyn I want to sidestep this other debate and get back to my Gwinnett Place example. I'm trying to address what you're saying, but I think purpose and ideas are slipping through the cracks with other arguments.
My thing is some people want urban or semi-urban living, but they also want the perks that go along with it... a nice sense of place, walk to shops, restaurants, etc.. Many of these people are choice workers companies also want to attract, especially younger ages.
So the reason I say this is I want to foster an environment where work centers can establish themselves in multiple places... mini-perimeter centers, buckheads, midtowns, etc.. if I can call it that.
The premise is more people can continue to live in the neighborhoods they are use to living in, but still get to work with a shorter drive. It is actually alot of what ARC regional planning has been trying for in recent decades. There will be more cars on a long stretch of freeway overall, but more people can fit on the same limited capacity because they are commuting shorter on average. The concept helps drivers and suburban dwellers alike and helps increase their property values. The key is to make a center that fits everyone needs... the younger creative class, the older creative class, the businesses looking for a place to locate, and the retailers and restaurants that are looking for an attractive market and fit them all together.
Transit will make it so job centers are connected and people can still commute really long distances if a job opportunity presents itself, but creating more business nodes will make it so more people can still drive to work by driving less.
As for my earlier Chamblee analogy... a urban residential neighborhood is starting to form around a transit station. The thing to remember is its not for everyone. People are choosing, using it to cut costs, or are younger, but the more people who do it out of choice.... the more people are not on the roads for long distances.
The catch is it takes work from the local government to put a little extra added investment into parks, streetscapes, retail nodes, etc... But on a good side... that extra cost is typically less than the cost of producing more exurban to suburban roadways to grow outwards. It is a difference of where you put the money for added residential growth.
Parking is certainly an issue. Most business offices in places like perimeter and Buckhead have their own parking, as welll as most shopping complexes. Atlantic Station is another good example of parking integration. I think the big parking problems comes with the small shops. They are too small to have their own parking deck by themselves, as in Decatur... so it often takes city investment to create parking. In turn they charge for parking. It exists, but in that context you're paying for it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
