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Old 10-25-2012, 01:28 PM
 
28,189 posts, read 24,793,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
That's cause they actually punish people for petty crimes.
You mean instead of just saying crime can happen anywhere and that the stupid victims need to learn to be more careful?

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Old 10-25-2012, 01:51 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,235 posts, read 16,276,523 times
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Quote:
You mean instead of just saying crime can happen anywhere and that the stupid victims need to learn to be more careful?
Hey now!
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Old 10-25-2012, 01:56 PM
 
28,189 posts, read 24,793,101 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
hey now!
:d
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:10 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,297,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Great point. It's criminals who create crime, not density. Look at some place like Singapore, which is many times more dense than Atlanta yet is has very low crime rates.
I was in Singapore earlier this year for about 5 weeks. It is a really interesting city.

One thing I noticed about is it is a true melting pot of Asian cultures with most people having moved there within several generations.

The benefits I think they have is tight immigration controls on who is allowed in. I also got the sense many felt lucky to be there... so there is a don't screw it up mentality.

The other thing that is interesting is people are more dependent on the government. At the root of what it is is a tax haven, so they attract people with extreme amounts of wealth. The land is also really limited.

The problem is if the state didn't own the land and decide its land-use the extreme amounts of wealth would be able to buy it all up and it wouldn't be a functioning city, but just a high-class banking center.

The amount of shopping... and ritzy shopping there is just crazy!
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:30 PM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,393,886 times
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Singapore's diversity is socially engineered. Most people live in public apartment blocks which have legally mandated quotas of people which reflect the overall percentage of ethnicities in the country. I.e. 75% Chinese, 14% Malay, 7% Indian, etc. They also have limits on the leases so families can't keep passing their condos on to their kids for perpetuity. After 3 generations or so, they have to sell to someone outside the family. In addition to being a tax haven, it's always been one of the world's biggest ports, so naturally attracts a lot of money. It's pretty interesting but I'm pretty sure that nothing Singapore has done to make itself into what it is today would ever fly anywhere in the USA, especially the South.
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Old 10-25-2012, 03:36 PM
 
28,189 posts, read 24,793,101 times
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I just grabbed Singapore as one example of a dense city with very low crime. There are many others.

The point is simply that a dense urban setting doesn't mean you are automatically going to have high crime rates.
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Old 10-25-2012, 04:38 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,851 posts, read 5,444,460 times
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To the people criticizing Atlanta for not being higher density, what do you propose to do to bring more jobs closer in to town so people in the metro don't often have to live far out to be close to their jobs. Keep in mind also jobs include a lot more than white collar office jobs of the type found in the high rises of Downtown. Places like Boston and Chicago have ports to draw in a huge number of blue collar jobs. Chicago is also a huge manufacturing center (in part due to it's port) Atlanta area's manufacturers have no port to draw them to locate in town.

Take my situation for example. I have worked several different fields in my life. At one point I worked in the food processing industry. The largest number of food industry jobs in the area are located up in Hall county. I also used to work in distribution. Most of the distribution centers in the area are pretty far out. If I chose to live out in one of those places because that's where my employer is how can you bash the city of Atlanta or me for not living intown and therefore promoting higher density?

Many of Chicago's food industry and distribution jobs are located in town because it was already a big city with these industries back when factories were still locating in urban centers (Atlanta was a small town back then) Also, because it has a port town.
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Old 10-25-2012, 05:10 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,297,382 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Galounger View Post
what do you propose to do to bring more jobs closer in to town so people in the metro don't often have to live far out to be close to their jobs. Keep in mind also jobs include a lot more than white collar office jobs of the type found in the high rises of Downtown. Places like Boston and Chicago have ports to draw in a huge number of blue collar jobs. Chicago is also a huge manufacturing center (in part due to it's port) Atlanta area's manufacturers have no port to draw them to locate in town.

Take my situation for example. I have worked several different fields in my life. At one point I worked in the food processing industry. The largest number of food industry jobs in the area are located up in Hall county. I also used to work in distribution. Most of the distribution centers in the area are pretty far out. If I chose to live out in one of those places because that's where my employer is how can you bash the city of Atlanta or me for not living intown and therefore promoting higher density?

Many of Chicago's food industry and distribution jobs are located in town because it was already a big city with these industries back when factories were still locating in urban centers (Atlanta was a small town back then) Also, because it has a port town.
Well I would say its the opposite too... jobs are moving further out to be closer to employees/employee housing now that we have outgrown out transportation capacity to move more people into town.

It is also not about bashing you at all... I think that is the problem when the arguments enter an overall suburban vs urban mentality... people trying to convince people to live their one and only lifestyle.

In the regional planning... they are framing it (for good reasons), like this... we are 5.4 million people now. Our best projections say we will be 9.1 million in 30 years, with the same level of job growth.

So the question is... where do all these new people live? Where do all these new jobs go?

Density allows us to leverage the infrastructure we already have more, than just having to build expansive highways and parkways into another layer of suburbs for 3.8 million people.

It is also the same reasons I argue we need dense nodes in the suburbs for live-work-and play. It is easier to reach the Gwinnett Place area from Duluth and Lawrenceville, than it is downtown as we have even more commuters wanting to get on our existing roads.

As for the core areas around and inside the Beltline... the more people who move there in the future are extra people that can reach high paying jobs downtown/midtown w/o needing to use the existing freeways. The fact is employers want to be in the area the most number of potential employees (of a certain education level for that job) can reach).


As for the port situation... We aren't as bad off as you think. We are an inland hub. We attract manufacturing under two premises... 1) some manufacturing is specialized/industrial in nature. In other words special ordered and custom made equipment. Many of these places try to be located near a good population of engineers. We do well in this regard, especially with near industries in town located to the northeast suburbs. 2) The traditional inland hub is the cheapest place you can ship goods and raw materials from different places in the country and out to different places in the county (or the world via the port in Savannah). We can pull in produced parts from the midwest, coal from W. Virginia, other parts from the mid-Atlantic, and other parts from Texas and assemble them here and ship them out. We can't attract all industries, but we can attract industries that needs manufactured goods and materials from different places.

And these jobs don't necessarily have to be downtown to make use of the inland hub, which is why most manufacturers are building on larger built to suit places outside the city.
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Old 10-26-2012, 02:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
738 posts, read 1,121,423 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post
There is a reason it isn't recommended to go into the wilderness alone.

With the argument you are making you could just say that if no people are around at all there is no crime or risk of it. Rationally, most humans don't live in the woods alone or on farms and we do exist.

So the point doesn't have any effective use when talking about a city or surburb of a city. Bringing up the wilderness is just argumentative dick stroking.
Hey, you brought up the wilderness, which is not the same as what I said (rural or suburban areas). But if I had a dick, I probably would stroke it once in a while
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