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Old 10-17-2012, 11:41 AM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,382,372 times
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That is what they are arguing, though. That a city can run fiber optic, water, sewer, provide sanitation, and a tram line to a high rise housing 500 people much easier and for far less money than it could run the same services to 500 people living in their own individual houses.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:43 AM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,382,372 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Fixed that for you.
Dude, come on. There are dozens of books and hundreds (thousands?) of papers and articles about this topic. Whether density is good or not is one of the central topics debated by urban planners and theorists since cities began.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:45 AM
 
Location: Vinings/Cumberland in the evil county of Cobb
1,255 posts, read 1,106,414 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Time and time again on these threads I see posters going on and on about density, and frankly I'm confused. Are we advocating density for density's sake, or is there some inherent value in density onto itself? Posters keep referring to other large cities that are totally unlike Atlanta in that they boomed in a different era or there are geographic boundaries. I mean, y'all know I'm no fan of Atlanta. One of my biggest problems with this city is that are are entirely too many people. The only time I really like it here is during holidays when what seems like half the population evacuates! So, to me the idea of all these people packed in on top of each other all but gives me panic attacks. So again, why density? Why is it so desirable? Make your pitch.

I guess to each, it's own...it sounds like you would be more comfortable in a rural setting and that's fine. Personally I feel increased levels of density in a city creates a certain energy that adds to the overall experience. Growing up in a residential neighborhood in Queens, NY I was lucky enough to straddle the fence between "highly dense" and "fairly dense" and I learned to appreciate both. As a recent transplant to Atlanta I love the area and have no regrets moving here, but sometimes I get an eery feeling driving through midtown or downtown. The streets lack the energy of a NY, San Fran, Chicago etc...they are sometimes so empty it reminds me of the movie I AM LEGEND. Those are the only times where I miss living in NY, walking around Manhattan and Brooklyn, soaking up the environment. I've had similar experiences walking around the street of London, Paris, Amsterdam and Sydney, Australia...it just felt like home .

I also feel that the sometime desolate streets of the city lend to the aggressive nature of Altanta's homeless population. In my almost 40 years of living in NYC, and almost 30 years of commuting on the NYC subpeople around, I don't think they way have I ever encountered such aggressive homeless people. If there were just more "witnesses", I don't think they would have the courage to yell and demand money from people like they try to do in Atlanta. If a person is down on their luck, I would also try to give something because I have been bleesed to have but if you yell at me, you don't get $#!+.

So as you can tell, I am a big fan of density. I think Altanta is a great city with greater potential, but it will not be able to compete with other "world-class" cities unless it somehow finds a way to create a "world-class" atmosphere.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:45 AM
 
28,109 posts, read 24,639,595 times
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It may be cheaper, but that's density with a purpose, not merely for the sake of density.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:46 AM
 
1,250 posts, read 1,487,112 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
Time and time again on these threads I see posters going on and on about density, and frankly I'm confused. Are we advocating density for density's sake, or is there some inherent value in density onto itself? Posters keep referring to other large cities that are totally unlike Atlanta in that they boomed in a different era or there are geographic boundaries. I mean, y'all know I'm no fan of Atlanta. One of my biggest problems with this city is that are are entirely too many people. The only time I really like it here is during holidays when what seems like half the population evacuates! So, to me the idea of all these people packed in on top of each other all but gives me panic attacks. So again, why density? Why is it so desirable? Make your pitch.
You either sound old or you are from the country (you are from Alabama right?). That may be why you don't get it or understand the appeal and that's fine.

Density makes living and getting around to different amenities and entertainment easier and more fun. Being able to rely less on driving to everything and sitting in traffic and being able to walk to places and interact with people and art.

It's what makes NYC/Portland etc so fun. There is life around and accessibility and not boring sprawl and endless driving.

If you don't get it I suggest you take a visit to a dense city like Chicago or DC. If you still don't get it then you never will.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:49 AM
 
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And the reasons people are giving in this thread is exactly the reason I argue Atlanta's future to become a dense metropolis. Not simply for the sake of density.

People like gtcorndog simply don't want Atlanta to move forward and simply stuck in this regressive, conservative mindset. I'm willing to bet he's an older guy too.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:49 AM
 
1,971 posts, read 2,382,372 times
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Originally Posted by Onthemove2014 View Post

It's what makes NYC/Portland etc so fun..
Portland is actually almost the same density as Atlanta throughout the metro. Atlanta's urban core is more dense than Portland's.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:54 AM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,610,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
And the reasons people are giving in this thread is exactly the reason I argue Atlanta's future to become a dense metropolis. Not simply for the sake of density.

People like gtcorndog simply don't want Atlanta to move forward and simply stuck in this regressive, conservative mindset. I'm willing to bet he's an older guy too.
Nope, still a young guy. I advocate letting the free market work. Comparing Atlanta and the way it has formed to other more established cities is ridiculous. Atlanta has developed the way it has for several reasons that differ than the way older cities developed. It is what it is. It isn't wrong. I don't sit around whining about how backwards the city is. The free market and the decisions of millions of people built the city the way it is. The city is infilling which is great for those that want to live there. Developers are building more medium density infill projects and people are moving back to the city. Why did this happen? The people (the market) wanted it and a profit opportunity existed for developers. Will this continue? Likely. Will we ever be like Chicago or other cities that you get wet dreams over? Probably not. That doesn't mean Atlanta isn't a great city that has a ton to offer. You really put an absurd about of value on the density of the city. The slums of Sao Paolo are pretty dense. Nice place, right? Look at the whole picture and open your mind son.
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Old 10-17-2012, 11:56 AM
 
7,687 posts, read 9,527,345 times
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I'm not a city planner, so I can't really discuss the benefits and problems with density. All I know is that like sparse population, density has its own list of pros and cons and like everything else has to be done with intelligence and purpose.

But I would like to address the psychololgy of density, particularly as it shows up on this board.

Since the 70s and 80s were really boom times for the suburbs, a ton of people grew up that way. It was the pipe dream, an nice tract of land with your own yard that offers privacy and safety, yet is still close enough to the city so you can work. I think that is what a lot of people bought into during that time. Starting maybe in the late 80s, but really in the 90s, you started to see a bit of a backlash to it. Movies like American Beauty examined the problems with the suburbs and that not all was perfect among those green lawns and white picket fences.

More importantly, you had the people who grew up in this environment starting to reject it. It seems like this is mostly because they feel like they had no sense of community and they grew up bored most of the time because let's face it, until you get a drivers license, there's really no sense of independence for children in the suburbs. They have to rely on their parents to take them pretty much anywhere. So the safety of a private yard and good schools came with a hidden cost: kids had to arrange playdates or play with kids on their street most of the time while kids in the city could walk or take transit to all kinds of places and find a wide variety of kids to play with in any nearby park.

Of course, it all goes much deeper, but if you follow this general thought process, you can see all the reasons why today's young adults are looking for something better than what they grew up with. Especially ones in their early 20s, they are looking for nightlife and bars they can walk to so they can party without worrying about DUIs.

I can't say with certainty which lifestyle is "better." That's probably because neither is better, they are just different. You still have some people who grew up in the suburbs, loved it, and want to raise their kids that way, just as you have some people who grew up in the city, hated it, and want to move out to the suburbs. So to some degree the conflict is going to exist all the time no matter what, but I think that what you are seeing today is a backlash to the way the majority of us grew up. In 20 years, you may see a different backlash and density might start to get a bad name.

I mean, this whole thing has existed for a while. Remember the story of the city mouse and the country mouse?

My personal opinion is that smart density is great. It appeases the people who want that lifestyle, and having a vibrant and active city center benefits the suburban areas as well as Atlanta becomes more desirable. One of the problems Atlanta has had is there just weren't enough people who wanted a dense living lifestyle. If there were, we'd have it. Capitalism ensures that what people want is what is profitable to produce.
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Old 10-17-2012, 12:02 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,874,321 times
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Okay, so I get the environmental impact, costs etc...but for myself, I HATE. Going to the more dense areas. Charming as Decatur is, I would hate to live there. Same with Buckhead and Marietta Square are much the same. Why? Because there's nowhere to park! I realize ideally we're all supposed to live in these areas, but given that they're some of the most expensive real estate, that's unlikely to happen. I also realize that with decent transit that wouldn't be an isdue. But I guess that's a chicken and egg argument. In order for people to be willing to pay for transit they actually have to want to go somewhere. Frankly, I never want to go to Decatur or L5P again. Maybe I'm the exception, but being mushed about by large crowds of people lost its appeal to me in my early twenties.
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