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Old 10-20-2012, 09:53 PM
 
6,795 posts, read 6,594,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
I think Downtown Atlanta will be the "final/last frontier" in the urban redevelopment of intown Atlanta.

When/if they build the multi-modal station and commuter rail--this will, especially, cause Downtown to blossom once again.




Great bones. Great buildings. Great street grid. Great transportation connections.


Don't count it out at all. You'll see.
Agreed. I think the Fairlie poplar district is amazing and has that quaint feeling to it that you fine in the northeastern cities....It's mainly the East and southern parts of downtown that need redeveloping.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
There is really just so much to address here I'm not quite sure to start.

I'm trying to figure out if you just haven't been in town long enough, if you're just young, happened to live downtown for a short while because you were at GSU, or any combination of the above?

There are a few real trends you're noticing, changes in the recent past you seem not to have noticed, some reasons you're a bit off base on (I'm sorry but a suburban style food market in the bottom of a modern high rise is a pretty recent trend and typically only happens in a -new- building that is built to suit), reasons you haven't noticed or haven't figured out yet, etc... After several threads I'm not really sure you see/understand the big picture of the Atlanta region as whole in how it exists today, how it got there, and the impact that has on decision making by the private market (aka residents, businesses, shoppers, etc...)

It isn't so much that we would disagree on wanting things to be better, but that there are issues of market demand, transportation, private development vs city infrastructure and what a city gov't can and can't do. It is important that we place out complaining and efforts in the right place to move forward in the right ways.
This really doesn't have that much to do with the density I've been preaching the last week or so...more of, how to actually get downtown going again...right now, it is really bad....only the Centennial olympic park area and Peachtree center is nice....once you are out of these areas, it becomes extremely shady and dull as someone said above.

Just because Atlanta developed post-WWII does not mean it cannot improve its downtown area like many other cities are trying to do.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Downtown could be cleaned up in a matter of months, if city government had the backbone to do it.

Unfortunately they are more interested in staying in office, and are too beholden to their voting blocs.
Exactly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlanta_BD View Post
I have wondered the same thing myself. I don't know the answer though. There used to be a Kroger downtown on Central Ave., but it closed many years ago, I think because too many people were stealing. The Macy's closed many years ago also. There is something to be said when the downtown of a major city can't even support having a Macy's.

There's nothing worth seeing or doing in The Underground and around Five Points station it's ghetto a bunch of homeless and always smells of urine. If there is nothing downtown to attract people then it can't grow. By the same token, maybe there isn't enough people to support any downtown offerings, given that bad/poor neighborhoods are in such close proximity to downtown' which is probably why Macy's and Kroger downtown closed.

I worked downtown for several years. I stopped working there in 2007. Since I stopped working there I very rarely go downtown. There's nothing there that warrants me going--not for fun or shopping anyway.

My parents wanted to have a fun night out a month or so ago. They went downtown on a Saturday night looking for something to do but said they ended up going home because they couldn't find anything to do.
If we did have shopping downtown, there would be more foot traffic and more normal people walking the streets eventually making the whole area safer. There's nothing in downtown, but the tourist stuff that people have probably already done who are locals in the area.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyiMetro View Post
Midtown trumps downtown 10 to 3, downtown needs a lot of work, I was in both districts tonight & downtown was looking hella shady. Especially the peachtree corridor between GT-BOA & Woodruff Center lots of foot traffic. Midtown is the official main district of Atlanta core in my eyes.
Exactly. Midtown is becoming the new downtown. The federal reserve building even moved to Midtown...obviously, there had to be a reason for this. I just think Midtown can get that quaint feeling to it like you can get in some parts of downtown....it's all glassy...at least downtown has historic buildings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rzzz View Post
Downtowns big issue is that most of the buildings aren't mixed use and don't have any street level spaces to rent out anyway. There's not much that can be done with space like that other than sell or rent it to other large tenants (like GSU). Homeless persons arent as big of an issue as others have mentioned... if the city wanted to they could relocate that element. NYC did. It's much harder to deal with the structural issues.
A lot of buildings in downtown can have mixed used to it and there are many parking lots that can be re-developed. THERE ARE A LOT OF PARKING LOTS. Get rid of them ugly things.
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Old 10-20-2012, 09:59 PM
 
28,135 posts, read 24,659,949 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
A lot of buildings in downtown can have mixed used to it and there are many parking lots that can be re-developed. THERE ARE A LOT OF PARKING LOTS. Get rid of them ugly things.
How do you do that?
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:01 PM
 
6,795 posts, read 6,594,417 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
How do you do that?
By developing over them....?
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:25 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,261,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
By developing over them....?
but thats part of what you've been missing in all this

city leaders can't snap their fingers and make it happen. They have also done alot to try to support downtown again.

The key is you have a demand problem... and you have different markets... do you have to look into individually different things and dissect the issues that cause them.

You have to get the private market moving in that direction.

Technically there are tons of retail space in downtown... they are just empty or have low-end shops in them... not mention there is a huge retail void in large parts of west/southwest Atlanta that drive this.

If the demand was there those places would have different shops in them and attract different customers.

Alot of effort went into trying to create a catalyst site around Ivan Allen Blvd with moderate success, but at the end of the day with office rents some of the lowest in town its hard to attract new larger developments.

I think the key problem is transportation. Atlanta never built out a fully robust freeway network and its led to a linear northward growth.

The situation we find today is half of Metro atlanta lives outside 285 to the north alone and a greater majority of choice workers are on that side of town for office tenants. I think this is what has led to the success (and high rents, which attracts more building) in Midtown and Buckhead. They have greater access at the moment to who retailers and employers want to reach. The problem is... it also takes steam away from Downtown.

Commuters can get to Midtown from 75, 85, and 400 before they bottleneck into the connector. To a large extent it is why I'm glad Aries brought up the commuter rail hub. I'm not sure when or if it will happen but I think that will be key.

Another scenario that has played out in my mind... is if the airport sucessfully attracts more businesses wanting to be apart of an aerotropolis and brings in more choice workers to the southside in the long-run... Downtown will restablish itself as being closer to the city's population center... and population center or well-educated workers.

The other thing I think will help in the long-run is the removal of projects and creation of dense housing on downtown's fringe that has had moderate success, even in cases where it moved the population from low-income to low-middle income it helps. Some of what I'm keeping a close eye on is the parts outside the grady curve, along edgewood towards old 4th ward, and down to Grant Park. Little by little positive change is happening and we will start see more things like the Sweet Auburn Curb Market pop up as there is a bigger residential core on the fringe of downtown... as opposed to the heart of downtown.

Last edited by cwkimbro; 10-20-2012 at 11:00 PM..
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Old 10-20-2012, 10:57 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,733,220 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
There is really just so much to address here I'm not quite sure to start.

I'm trying to figure out if you just haven't been in town long enough, if you're just young, happened to live downtown for a short while because you were at GSU, or any combination of the above?

There are a few real trends you're noticing, changes in the recent past you seem not to have noticed, some reasons you're a bit off base on (I'm sorry but a suburban style food market in the bottom of a modern high rise is a pretty recent trend and typically only happens in a -new- building that is built to suit), reasons you haven't noticed or haven't figured out yet, etc... After several threads I'm not really sure you see/understand the big picture of the Atlanta region as whole in how it exists today, how it got there, and the impact that has on decision making by the private market (aka residents, businesses, shoppers, etc...)

It isn't so much that we would disagree on wanting things to be better, but that there are issues of market demand, transportation, private development vs city infrastructure and what a city gov't can and can't do. It is important that we place out complaining and efforts in the right place to move forward in the right ways.
Here, here. Knowing the full history of Downtown helps shape a more releastic picture of why Downtown is the way it is today. Not least of which the knowing the affect the 1917 fire (that wiped out 1/4 of the city's residential districts), the Depression, and public housing had on Downtown as district. What Downtown is today is a direct result of things that happened in the first half of last century. I suppose if one's memories of the last century were relegated to the Teletubbies and the Power Rangers, it might be hard to understand that.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:00 PM
 
6,795 posts, read 6,594,417 times
Reputation: 5411
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Here, here. Knowing the full history of Downtown helps shape a more releastic picture of why Downtown is the way it is today. Not least of which the knowing the affect the 1917 fire (that wiped out 1/4 of the city's residential districts), the Depression, and public housing had on Downtown as district. What Downtown is today is a direct result of things that happened in the first half of last century. I suppose if one's memories of the last century were relegated to the Teletubbies and the Power Rangers, it might be hard to understand that.
Yes, let's blame the state of the downtown district to events that occurred over half a century ago. Makes total sense.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,261,125 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Yes, let's blame the state of the downtown district to events that occurred over half a century ago. Makes total sense.
It is important... as well as analyzing other market data for the Atlanta region as a whole... aka why are office rents higher in midtown and buckhead... its not so simple to say there are beggars are on the street. It is a piece of how got to this point, why our region/city has grown the was it has, and how we have already started to move on.

but I will tell you one key issue you lost me in your first post is the complaining on how the city was doing nothing, but giving midtown everything.

Alot of these changes are being driven from private investment + self taxing districts that benefit from new building.

One of the key things the city did was realize that downtown was surrounded by residential neighborhoods in ruins from decades of institutional housing of poor families... and it was a realization that projects weren't even helping people grow individually. It was a lose-lose scenario.

So when I look at downtown as a whole today I see new buildings and parks where old decaying projects use to stand. I see streetscape work on Marietta st, some places around GSU, a huge new GSU dorm, an expanded and overhauled world congress center, a new woodruff park, new GSU buildings in the Fairlie-Poplar district, a new Ivan Allen Blvd, new bridges, not to mention the streetcar project, etc... these are all things happening over time and many of them targeted at changing things from the past.

For me it has been fun over time watching the plans from the various CIDs and watching how things start to unfold.... Some succeed some don't. You see new builidngs pop up at the Capital Gateway or McDaniel st. just as the downtown CID planned and you start to see and realize the nuances for the planning after awhile.

You might enjoy it. Central Atlanta Progress | Atlanta Downtown Improvement District The plans or "Imagine Downtown" is a good place to start.
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:30 PM
 
Location: Savannah GA
13,118 posts, read 15,922,889 times
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Atlanta wishes it had this:

Savannah's surging downtown defies downturn
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Old 10-20-2012, 11:48 PM
 
7,699 posts, read 9,537,430 times
Reputation: 5667
Quote:
Downtown could be cleaned up in a matter of months, if city government had the backbone to do it.
I say you are exactly right.

If the leadership had the guts to clean up downtown, I think a lot of the rest of it would just take care of itself. People might open more businesses there if people were willing to go.

I think they also really need to do some work filling in that DMZ between midtown and downtown. They really aren't far from each other, but nobody would ever park in midtown and walk downtown or vice versa because you'd have to walk through several blocks of no-man's land. They really need to fix that.

That's the best bet for downtown. Not to try to develop new spots in the middle of downtown, but to start in midtown and keep making new things further and further south until you get to downtown. If we have another real estate boom, they could get this done in under 10 years. Midtown changed drastically between 1997 and 2007, that's all we need to have happen again.
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Old 10-21-2012, 01:05 AM
 
6,795 posts, read 6,594,417 times
Reputation: 5411
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro View Post
It is important... as well as analyzing other market data for the Atlanta region as a whole... aka why are office rents higher in midtown and buckhead... its not so simple to say there are beggars are on the street. It is a piece of how got to this point, why our region/city has grown the was it has, and how we have already started to move on.

but I will tell you one key issue you lost me in your first post is the complaining on how the city was doing nothing, but giving midtown everything.

Alot of these changes are being driven from private investment + self taxing districts that benefit from new building.

One of the key things the city did was realize that downtown was surrounded by residential neighborhoods in ruins from decades of institutional housing of poor families... and it was a realization that projects weren't even helping people grow individually. It was a lose-lose scenario.

So when I look at downtown as a whole today I see new buildings and parks where old decaying projects use to stand. I see streetscape work on Marietta st, some places around GSU, a huge new GSU dorm, an expanded and overhauled world congress center, a new woodruff park, new GSU buildings in the Fairlie-Poplar district, a new Ivan Allen Blvd, new bridges, not to mention the streetcar project, etc... these are all things happening over time and many of them targeted at changing things from the past.

For me it has been fun over time watching the plans from the various CIDs and watching how things start to unfold.... Some succeed some don't. You see new builidngs pop up at the Capital Gateway or McDaniel st. just as the downtown CID planned and you start to see and realize the nuances for the planning after awhile.

You might enjoy it. Central Atlanta Progress | Atlanta Downtown Improvement District The plans or "Imagine Downtown" is a good place to start.


Thanks for that link. They also agree with most of the things i've been saying all this time. Read this: The Three Statistics That Every Downtown Should Live By | Downtown Atlanta

Time for Atlanta to attempt to re-attract developers to Atlanta or downtown Atlanta will be dead by 2025.
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