Why Midtown Atlanta is much better off then Downtown Atlanta (Marietta: neighborhood, live in)

[atltechdude]

Originally Posted by BroadStJudge

I live downtown. A majority of downtown residents are also affluent white, black, mixed race, women, gays, etc. Where exactly are these lower income minorities that you speak of living? All of the projects were torn down years ago.

Interesting. Well its been a little while since I've been downtown so im sure you can speak to it better than I.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by BroadStJudge

I live downtown. A majority of downtown residents are also affluent white, black, mixed race, women, gays, etc. Where exactly are these lower income minorities that you speak of living? All of the projects were torn down years ago.

I don't doubt for a second that some areas are fairly well off, especially in newer lofts and the northern part of the fairlie-poplar district and perhaps part of castleberry hill, however I have to say there is alot of evidence to the contrary too.... particularly to the south, southeast, and Sono.

When they did a planning a report for the streetcar one of the the key points was it was an area ripe for renewal and that most the population living near the street car were transit dependent and in the lower income strata.

I was browsing rents and condos this past year. Some of the cheapest in the city are right in the heart of downtown west of GSU. I also found cheap properties near the southern end of the Old 4th Ward and in SoNo. These also happen to be the largest housing neighborhoods within downtown.

Castleberry slipped a bit with the housing crisis too, but I think the character of the area will hold it up a bit.

In Downtown's own development and planning report the median incomes for the region, the city, and downtown were the following:
region $58,730
Atlanta $43,465
Downtown $25,475

The predicted things were going to continue on a fast growing upward trend, but that was during the building boom. With the housing crisis things have considerably changed, so while I have no doubt of the affluence of some people in some areas... there is still alot to be desired from some of the neighborhoods in downtown.

[ATL Urbanist]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

In Downtown's own development and planning report the median incomes for the region, the city, and downtown were the following:
region $58,730
Atlanta $43,465
Downtown $25,475

The predicted things were going to continue on a fast growing upward trend, but that was during the building boom. With the housing crisis things have considerably changed, so while I have no doubt of the affluence of some people in some areas... there is still alot to be desired from some of the neighborhoods in downtown.

I'd like to see what they're defining as 'downtown'. I'm not saying I doubt the data, but when I look at the downtown map (as defined by the city's Neighborhood Planning Unit M boundaries) I have trouble figuring out where the low-income residences are within this:
http://www.atlantadna.org/wp-content...ap2008_big.jpg

As Broad St Judge pointed out, the projects are long gone and the other low-income apartments that I knew of, off Auburn Avenue, were destroyed by the tornado a few years ago. There are two buildings of transitional housing that I know of -- one on Walton Street and one (currently empty and under renovation) where Peachtree Street goes over the interstate on the north end of downtown. Those might be throwing the curve.

I also wonder if they're counting all the GSU students. That would surely throw a curve if they're unemployed, as many students are.

Otherwise, I'm not aware of low-income housing within the area. Does anyone know specifically where it is?

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by ATL Urbanist

I'd like to see what they're defining as 'downtown'. I'm not saying I doubt the data, but when I look at the downtown map (as defined by the city's Neighborhood Planning Unit M boundaries) I have trouble figuring out where the low-income residences are within this:
http://www.atlantadna.org/wp-content...ap2008_big.jpg

As Broad St Judge pointed out, the projects are long gone and the other low-income apartments that I knew of, off Auburn Avenue, were destroyed by the tornado a few years ago. There are two buildings of transitional housing that I know of -- one on Walton Street and one (currently empty and under renovation) where Peachtree Street goes over the interstate on the north end of downtown. Those might be throwing the curve.

I also wonder if they're counting all the GSU students. That would surely throw a curve if they're unemployed, as many students are.

Otherwise, I'm not aware of low-income housing within the area. Does anyone know specifically where it is?

well several things...

that is just a NPU boundary. There are multiple neighborhoods. Downtown is also not traditionally defined by the freeway, like most consider it today, so it is a bit larger.

The downtown CID claims a larger area.

That aside... even when I was looking at condos throughout town many of the cheapest ones were at the southern part and near Five points, Marietta St, and Edgewood.

This is from the ADID http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_file...nta_living.pdf

[Staysean23]

Originally Posted by BroadStJudge

I live downtown. A majority of downtown residents are also affluent white, black, mixed race, women, gays, etc. Where exactly are these lower income minorities that you speak of living? All of the projects were torn down years ago.

I guess they referring to all the tax credit apartments that have gone up I really haven't seen any low income areas downtown I'm still trying to figure out where all the low income residents live at Downtown, because I have a couple of gay friends who live downtown and they arent low income. Can someone name the areas of the neighborhoods that you're referring to as low income

[ATL Urbanist]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

well several things...

that is just a NPU boundary. There are multiple neighborhoods. Downtown is also not traditionally defined by the freeway, like most consider it today, so it is a bit larger.

The downtown CID claims a larger area.

That aside... even when I was looking at condos throughout town many of the cheapest ones were at the southern part and near Five points, Marietta St, and Edgewood.

This is from the ADID http://www.atlantadowntown.com/_file...nta_living.pdf

Interesting -- thanks. I hadn't seen that larger boundary from this map. When I think of downtown I'm usually confining it to the smaller Atlanta Downtown Neighborhood Association map. I'll need to be more specific. This larger area certainly includes many low-income residents in buildings along Boulevard and also in the southern part of the Old Fourth Ward just north of Dekalb Avenue.

It reminds me of the difficulty with talking about Midtown when there's a historic neighborhood called that but also a much larger area that goes by the name. It's the same with Buckhead too, which can now be a name applied to pretty much everything in the city north of Midtown.

So, to clarify, when I've referred to Downtown in this thread, I've meant the Downtown neighborhood as defined by the City of Atlanta, not this larger Downtown Improvement District defined by the public-private Central Atlanta Progress organization. Whew! Confusing.

[cwkimbro]

Quick update:

I thought something interesting. That is the neighborhood association map

This is the NPU map http://www.atlantaga.gov/modules/sho...ocumentid=2699

unless they changed it recently

Nothing matches up!

[ATL Urbanist]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Quick update:

I thought something interesting. That is the neighborhood association map

This is the NPU map http://www.atlantaga.gov/modules/sho...ocumentid=2699

unless they changed it recently

Nothing matches up!

Nothing matches up is right. NPU-M has their own website and their map of Downtown differs even from the one on the atlantaga.gov site:
http://npumatlanta.org/wp-content/up...0/12/npu_m.pdf

So basically you just have to pick one and declare it when talking about Downtown. Whether it's fair or not, I can't help but cherry pick the smaller ADNA boundary because that's what I've always thought of as Downtown -- and that's where people who show up to the neighborhood association events (like clean-ups and block parties) live. That really feels like my neighborhood.

[Ant131531]

Let's be honest. Downtown is bounded by Downtown connector to the east, I-20 to the south, Northside Drive to the west and Connector to the north...That's what I always thought was Downtown.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by ATL Urbanist

Nothing matches up is right. NPU-M has their own website and their map of Downtown differs even from the one on the atlantaga.gov site:
http://npumatlanta.org/wp-content/up...0/12/npu_m.pdf

So basically you just have to pick one and declare it when talking about Downtown. Whether it's fair or not, I can't help but cherry pick the smaller ADNA boundary because that's what I've always thought of as Downtown -- and that's where people who show up to the neighborhood association events (like clean-ups and block parties) live. That really feels like my neighborhood.

It looks to me like they do match up, unless I am missing the diff y'all are talking about.