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Old 03-11-2013, 12:59 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
22,294 posts, read 16,325,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackPeach2 View Post
There was a lot of potention for that area near turner field, it could have easily been see up like Wrigley in Chicago, but they put those condos/townhomes too far away. If those residence were built right next to the ballpark that would be a great place to hang, if one was not at the game.
Very few developers want to build condos next to surface parking. The plans of the area around the Ted are to build mixed-use on the current parking lots and have parking garages.
The recession hurt the plans of development in Atlanta for years and now we are starting to see the investment dollars flow again into developments in Atlanta's core.
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Old 03-15-2013, 07:30 AM
 
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Interesting that the taxpayers are being asked to pony up a couple of hundred million bucks without anyone having actually seen a plan for this stadium or knowing how it will fit into the community, without any disclosure of actual infrastructure costs or any public studies, and without even having a site selected.

How many people would buy a house and sign up for a mortgage on that basis?


Last edited by arjay57; 03-15-2013 at 07:51 AM..
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Old 03-15-2013, 10:42 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Interesting that the taxpayers are being asked to pony up a couple of hundred million bucks without anyone having actually seen a plan for this stadium or knowing how it will fit into the community, without any disclosure of actual infrastructure costs or any public studies, and without even having a site selected.

How many people would buy a house and sign up for a mortgage on that basis?

Nothing binding has been signed yet. Plans are still being discussed. You usually get a sense of how / if you are going to be able to pay for the house before you get anywhere near signing a mortgage.
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Old 03-15-2013, 11:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
Nothing binding has been signed yet. Plans are still being discussed. You usually get a sense of how / if you are going to be able to pay for the house before you get anywhere near signing a mortgage.
So I take it you would definitely want to see those issues resolved (e.g., basic design, integration with the urban fabric, site location, disclosure of infrastructure costs and responsibilities, plans for the current dome site, etc.) prior to the city council signing off any binding funding agreement?

Or not? Seems like without knowing those basic parameters you'd be buying a pig in a poke.

Personally I wouldn't sign on to a new house and a whopping mortgage without knowing pretty much what it would look like, exactly where it would be, how it would interact with the street and the neighborhood, how much it will cost to hook up the sewer, pave the driveway and the streets, what the interest rate is and who's going to be paying for all that.

I realize developers and realtors can be pretty persuasive and that they might even say, "Oh, don't worry about all that stuff. We can't tell you about it right now but we promise you're going to like it. Just go ahead and sign right here. After all, you're not going to have to pay for any of it personally."

I'm just raising the question as to whether it would be prudent to go ahead and sign off under those conditions.
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Old 03-15-2013, 01:21 PM
 
9,988 posts, read 6,977,505 times
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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
So I take it you would definitely want to see those issues resolved (e.g., basic design, integration with the urban fabric, site location, disclosure of infrastructure costs and responsibilities, plans for the current dome site, etc.) prior to the city council signing off any binding funding agreement?

Or not? Seems like without knowing those basic parameters you'd be buying a pig in a poke.

Personally I wouldn't sign on to a new house and a whopping mortgage without knowing pretty much what it would look like, exactly where it would be, how it would interact with the street and the neighborhood, how much it will cost to hook up the sewer, pave the driveway and the streets, what the interest rate is and who's going to be paying for all that.

I realize developers and realtors can be pretty persuasive and that they might even say, "Oh, don't worry about all that stuff. We can't tell you about it right now but we promise you're going to like it. Just go ahead and sign right here. After all, you're not going to have to pay for any of it personally."

I'm just raising the question as to whether it would be prudent to go ahead and sign off under those conditions.
Since Atlanta is not paying for the majority of the stadium nor any cost over-runs, I would expect some of the following conditions would come along with it: The potential locations, basic design conditions (ie parking, approx seating, etc), terms (falcons must stay X years, financials previous outlined).

If this full cost was being handed to the developer by the city I would expect a complete and very detailed stadium design as to be built. But all we would be signing with this is something committing to pay a part of it on down the road. So, no I would not expect the same details I would before signing on a house.
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Old 03-15-2013, 02:10 PM
 
28,248 posts, read 24,853,837 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
If this full cost was being handed to the developer by the city I would expect a complete and very detailed stadium design as to be built. But all we would be signing with this is something committing to pay a part of it on down the road. So, no I would not expect the same details I would before signing on a house.
The analogy to buying a house is not direct, of course, but the point I'm getting at is that a $200 million commitment ought to buy a significant amount of clarity, transparency and involvement. If a private equity firm was putting up the $200 million the city is proposing to spend, I can assure you that their teams of lawyers, accountants and architects would be all over this to ensure that the company had an important and clearly defined place at the table.

Shouldn't public funds receive at least the same level of caution and expertise?

What exactly do we know about the details of this project, for example? Does anyone have a link to the study (or studies) that evaluate what infrastructure will be needed and how much it will cost? Does the public have an opportunity to engage in the design process and ensure that this stadium will be a part of the city's urban fabric rather than just another big hunk of concrete amid a sea of parking? If so, when and where will that take place? What's going to happen to the existing dome site -- will it just revert to a surface parking lot? Who has the say so on that issue? What sort of place at the table will the city get in the design process in exchange for a $200 million investment? Do actual citizens have any role in this and if so when do they get to participate?
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Old 03-15-2013, 08:11 PM
 
28,248 posts, read 24,853,837 times
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Just to clarify, I'm not opposed to a new stadium, nor am I opposed to using part of the hotel tax to fund it.

However, by any standards a $200 million investment is a very big deal.

I simply haven't seen any evidence of the sort of tough due diligence and hard negotiating you would see in the private sector for an investment like this. Where exactly will this be? How do we ensure that the design truly blends into to the urban fabric and isn't just another concrete sarcophagus in a sea of parking? What exactly are the plans for the present dome -- will it simply revert back to a surface lot? What in particular are the infrastructure requirements and where are the cost studies? What role will the city have at the table as this project goes forward? Who are the city's design, planning and transportation consultants on this project? Who are the city's financial consultants? Where are the reports from these consultants, if we in fact have retained any? What precisely is the mechanism to guarantee transparency to the city's taxpayers?

No deal of this magnitude would go down in the private sector without all of those bases being 100% covered. Why should we settle for less when the taxpayers' money is at stake?


About That Stadium Where Taxpayers Will Contribute $200 Million “And The Falcons Will Pick Up The Rest”: Bull Excrement
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