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Old 02-07-2013, 10:09 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,797 posts, read 11,729,302 times
Reputation: 5394

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Oh, I also forgot its religious conservatives and people who have bought in to all the propaganda about te supposed evils of marijuana that help keep it illegal too. No, marijuana will not lead to you doing heroine or cocaine. Stupidity does.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:30 PM
 
1,584 posts, read 1,654,318 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
So does heroin.
I agree with you that some of the arguments for legalization are stupid. Heavy smokers score lower on iq tests. Interestingly light smokers score higher than peolple who don't smoke. I will even admit that it is physically and mentally addictive. Not like heroin but it is. Trouble sleeping is a physical symptom. The situation with it being easier for minors to get than alcohol exists because drug dealers don't check ids. We can't assume use would go up for teens if it were taken out of the hands of criminals and sold by licensed businesses. Prohibition hurts society more than probably even the worst drugs. What is more dangerous? A night in Rice Street or a joint? Let's be honest.
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:49 PM
 
7,689 posts, read 9,532,497 times
Reputation: 5657
Quote:
We can't assume use would go up for teens if it were taken out of the hands of criminals and sold by licensed businesses.
Yes we can because it is a fact that when you make something legal, usage increases.

This is fact. Everybody, remember this: IF WE LEGALIZE MARIJUANA, ITS USAGE WILL INCREASE.

That is guaranteed. Now, we can say that we don't care if the usage increases, but we can't deny that it will.

I haven't seen the data you are referring to about heavy vs. light users, but I will take it at face value and believe it. I think an important distinction to make is marijuana use vs. marijuana abuse. So for the sake of argument, I'll just call heavy users abusers.

I don't think many people out there are worried about the users. We all know, work with, or have at least heard of marijuana users who function just fine. Just like we know people who drink who are just fine. We also all know loser potheads who abuse marijuana, just like we all know a sloppy alcoholic or two.

I think what responsible users fail to recognize is that legalization will create more abusers. Right now there might be occasionally users who have never become abusers because maybe they don't have reliable connections. Maybe it's just too much of a pain for them to get. Maybe it's too expensive. Maybe they don't have a place they feel safe smoking it all the time. It's a fact that if it is legal, some of these users will become abusers. I'm not saying that's a good enough reason to keep it illegal, I'm just saying let's acknowledge this fact and make sure that as a society we are ready to deal with an increased number of marijuana abusers.

Let me make a comparison. Have you ever been to Las Vegas? Have you noticed that every casino has signs everywhere with 800 numbers you can call if you have a gambling problem? It's not that everyone bets away their kids' college funds, but some people do, so they at least try their best to address those people. We need to do the same with marijuana. If we legalize it, we need to have resources in place to assist people who feel like they are starting to become abusers.

Incidentally, I'm a huge fan of Dr. Drew Pinsky. My attitude of letting Washington and Colorado be "test markets" before proceeding ourselves really comes from him. He has said all of these things, and I happen to agree with him. I'm not talking about his TV shows, which I don't watch, he has a podcast where he discusses all of these issue medically and socially and he really knows what he is talking about. I think he is right on the money with his approach on how to deal with this. After all, he sees the effects of marijuana every day. He never says that it is a horrible drug that ruins people, but it definitely can create some problems in some people and needs to be monitored closely. The key thing to remember is that it isn't just some harmless substance that has no effects. We have to understand and be ready to address what legalization will realistically mean.

On a side note, I think I'll be pretty mad when it's easier to walk into a store and buy marijuana than it is to go buy Claritin-D!
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Old 02-07-2013, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
3,529 posts, read 2,303,310 times
Reputation: 2763
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
So does heroin.
Marijuana can be just as effective for some people at pain relief as opiates, and it is nonaddictive.

What sense is there in prohibiting its use (even for medical) when he have a huge opiate addiction problem in this country? None.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:03 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Sandy Springs)
3,529 posts, read 2,303,310 times
Reputation: 2763
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
This is kind of a silly argument because alcohol is so ingrained in our society.
And Marijuana isn't?

20+ million regular users and over half the adult population admits to using it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Maybe it's easier to get than alcohol (I don't believe you that it is, but let's just assume that it is)
I said for some it is. It obviously depends on the situation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
so why make it even easier still?
Because you don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

Locking up adults for selling or using it, ruining their careers, pissing away a ton of money to Mexico, making a mockery of the rule of law and forming rifts between communities and the police etc. are all larger societal problems that I would rather see solved, even if it means a few more people use it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Still, nobody has addressed the point that I'm trying to make. I'm not saying to definitely not legalize it. I'm just saying why not wait until we see what the fallout from legalizing it means in Colorado and Washington so we can be better prepared for the effects of it?
Oh I'm sure Georgia won't be on the leading edge to legalize it. We couldn't even buy beer on Sunday until last year.
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Old 02-07-2013, 11:53 PM
 
110 posts, read 122,793 times
Reputation: 53
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Yes we can because it is a fact that when you make something legal, usage increases.

This is fact. Everybody, remember this: IF WE LEGALIZE MARIJUANA, ITS USAGE WILL INCREASE.

That is guaranteed. Now, we can say that we don't care if the usage increases, but we can't deny that it will.

I haven't seen the data you are referring to about heavy vs. light users, but I will take it at face value and believe it. I think an important distinction to make is marijuana use vs. marijuana abuse. So for the sake of argument, I'll just call heavy users abusers.

I don't think many people out there are worried about the users. We all know, work with, or have at least heard of marijuana users who function just fine. Just like we know people who drink who are just fine. We also all know loser potheads who abuse marijuana, just like we all know a sloppy alcoholic or two.

I think what responsible users fail to recognize is that legalization will create more abusers. Right now there might be occasionally users who have never become abusers because maybe they don't have reliable connections. Maybe it's just too much of a pain for them to get. Maybe it's too expensive. Maybe they don't have a place they feel safe smoking it all the time. It's a fact that if it is legal, some of these users will become abusers. I'm not saying that's a good enough reason to keep it illegal, I'm just saying let's acknowledge this fact and make sure that as a society we are ready to deal with an increased number of marijuana abusers.

Let me make a comparison. Have you ever been to Las Vegas? Have you noticed that every casino has signs everywhere with 800 numbers you can call if you have a gambling problem? It's not that everyone bets away their kids' college funds, but some people do, so they at least try their best to address those people. We need to do the same with marijuana. If we legalize it, we need to have resources in place to assist people who feel like they are starting to become abusers.

Incidentally, I'm a huge fan of Dr. Drew Pinsky. My attitude of letting Washington and Colorado be "test markets" before proceeding ourselves really comes from him. He has said all of these things, and I happen to agree with him. I'm not talking about his TV shows, which I don't watch, he has a podcast where he discusses all of these issue medically and socially and he really knows what he is talking about. I think he is right on the money with his approach on how to deal with this. After all, he sees the effects of marijuana every day. He never says that it is a horrible drug that ruins people, but it definitely can create some problems in some people and needs to be monitored closely. The key thing to remember is that it isn't just some harmless substance that has no effects. We have to understand and be ready to address what legalization will realistically mean.

On a side note, I think I'll be pretty mad when it's easier to walk into a store and buy marijuana than it is to go buy Claritin-D!
Again, cigarettes is far more harmful than marijuana. There was a time alcohol was illegal and all it did was make few people rich and cause more crime. It always goes back to same argument and more harmful products are sold. You say alcohol is more integrated but marijuana is also used except that it's illegal because someone decided that. You don't ban alcohol nor tobacco which are more harmful yet worried about marijuana. There would be less people behind bars and maybe that's something certain people don't want but it be a good thing. There are so many people who smoke marijuana But would never admit because their afraid. The numbers would be even higher if people were honest. I don't get your fear of needing to wait and see when a huge number of people already do it and are doing just fine. I see another motive by those who are so opposed to it(not you) and health isn't the real problem here.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:45 AM
 
Location: A Very Naughtytown In Northwestern Montanifornia U.S.A.
1,088 posts, read 1,532,570 times
Reputation: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
So does heroin.
Nonsense.

I believe that cannabis was legal here for a longer period in our nations history than the current period of illegal status.
Booze was banned for a short period too, Now it's pot's turn to be legalized so those who don't like pot just not smoke it.
If the majority wants legal weed they can have it.
I think that George Washington grew cannabis in a garden on the grounds of the White House.

Last edited by DontLookPhoto; 02-08-2013 at 08:55 AM..
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:50 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,558 posts, read 8,619,721 times
Reputation: 5062
Oh, goody. A bunch of high folks wandering around with firearms. Geez. Gotta love it.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:56 AM
 
1,584 posts, read 1,654,318 times
Reputation: 1197
Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Yes we can because it is a fact that when you make something legal, usage increases.

This is fact. Everybody, remember this: IF WE LEGALIZE MARIJUANA, ITS USAGE WILL INCREASE.

That is guaranteed. Now, we can say that we don't care if the usage increases, but we can't deny that it will.

I haven't seen the data you are referring to about heavy vs. light users, but I will take it at face value and believe it. I think an important distinction to make is marijuana use vs. marijuana abuse. So for the sake of argument, I'll just call heavy users abusers.

I don't think many people out there are worried about the users. We all know, work with, or have at least heard of marijuana users who function just fine. Just like we know people who drink who are just fine. We also all know loser potheads who abuse marijuana, just like we all know a sloppy alcoholic or two.

I think what responsible users fail to recognize is that legalization will create more abusers. Right now there might be occasionally users who have never become abusers because maybe they don't have reliable connections. Maybe it's just too much of a pain for them to get. Maybe it's too expensive. Maybe they don't have a place they feel safe smoking it all the time. It's a fact that if it is legal, some of these users will become abusers. I'm not saying that's a good enough reason to keep it illegal, I'm just saying let's acknowledge this fact and make sure that as a society we are ready to deal with an increased number of marijuana abusers.

Let me make a comparison. Have you ever been to Las Vegas? Have you noticed that every casino has signs everywhere with 800 numbers you can call if you have a gambling problem? It's not that everyone bets away their kids' college funds, but some people do, so they at least try their best to address those people. We need to do the same with marijuana. If we legalize it, we need to have resources in place to assist people who feel like they are starting to become abusers.

Incidentally, I'm a huge fan of Dr. Drew Pinsky. My attitude of letting Washington and Colorado be "test markets" before proceeding ourselves really comes from him. He has said all of these things, and I happen to agree with him. I'm not talking about his TV shows, which I don't watch, he has a podcast where he discusses all of these issue medically and socially and he really knows what he is talking about. I think he is right on the money with his approach on how to deal with this. After all, he sees the effects of marijuana every day. He never says that it is a horrible drug that ruins people, but it definitely can create some problems in some people and needs to be monitored closely. The key thing to remember is that it isn't just some harmless substance that has no effects. We have to understand and be ready to address what legalization will realistically mean.

On a side note, I think I'll be pretty mad when it's easier to walk into a store and buy marijuana than it is to go buy Claritin-D!
I was referring to teen use. It could become harder for teens to get since, like I stated before drug dealers don't check id. Adult use could go up. It probably will. But how can you say it is fact or guaranteed when we have nothing to compare it to. No country has made pot legal.
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Old 02-08-2013, 08:58 AM
 
Location: A Very Naughtytown In Northwestern Montanifornia U.S.A.
1,088 posts, read 1,532,570 times
Reputation: 1959
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Oh, goody. A bunch of high folks wandering around with firearms. Geez. Gotta love it.
A bunch of drunks running about with guns is a lovely idea also. No ?
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