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Old 02-08-2013, 10:24 PM
 
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Can the grant really be used to attend a for-profit tech school?

Is there such thing as a non-profit tech school? I always assumed places like Gwinnett Tech were non-profit, but I can't seem to find that written anywhere, so maybe tech schools are always private for-profit schools. I don't know.

It does seem like 2.0 is pretty low. I mean, that's all Cs. Even if you aren't the brightest, you should be able to temper Cs and Ds in core subjects like math or science with Bs and the occasional A in electives. I think 2.5 would be a more fair number. I mean, you do have to have a degree of discipline to make it in a trade school.

I'd rather see fewer kids get the grant but have it be bigger and more meaningful for the ones who really deserve it than having it be a lower amount so it can accomodate those that didn't work as hard.
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Old 02-08-2013, 10:41 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Can the grant really be used to attend a for-profit tech school?

Is there such thing as a non-profit tech school? I always assumed places like Gwinnett Tech were non-profit, but I can't seem to find that written anywhere, so maybe tech schools are always private for-profit schools. I don't know.

It does seem like 2.0 is pretty low. I mean, that's all Cs. Even if you aren't the brightest, you should be able to temper Cs and Ds in core subjects like math or science with Bs and the occasional A in electives. I think 2.5 would be a more fair number. I mean, you do have to have a degree of discipline to make it in a trade school.

I'd rather see fewer kids get the grant but have it be bigger and more meaningful for the ones who really deserve it than having it be a lower amount so it can accomodate those that didn't work as hard.
The GPA is calculated using core subjects. Electives are not part of the equation.
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Old 02-09-2013, 06:46 PM
 
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Reward the achievers... not those who choose to barely navigate high school with a C average. They've made their choice to not apply themselves. Give the money to those kids who have earned it.
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Old 02-10-2013, 07:28 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
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I suspect that the reason that so many trade school entrants are coming to Technical Colleges with less than 2.5 gpa is simply because of the haphazard way Georgia's K-12 school system forces everyone into a one-size-fit-all academic formula regardless of aptitude and ability.

If students were tracked from an early age and then encouraged to go specially designed secondary schools that suit their abilities, we Georgians would see a vastly different picture. The result would mean less 2.5 gpas and less waste in time and taxpayer resources. Most other advanced western industrial nations have this sort of system as their education policy.

But I have been yelling about this on city-data for years now. And no one as of yet cares to apply any sort of nuanced thinking to this issue.

Just the same ol' same ol' southern ideological warfare and hand-wringing. And likely because there are too many special interest groups who are afraid of losing whatever amount of money and power that may come about with the potential changes, I guess.

*sigh*

So what else is new?

Last edited by AcidSnake; 02-10-2013 at 07:50 AM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:21 AM
 
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Quote:
If students were tracked from an early age and then encouraged to go specially designed secondary schools that suit their abilities, we Georgians would see a vastly different picture.
This makes total sense. But the reason why it doesn't happen is probably because of people like you.

Imgine the reality of this happening. What you would see is a disproprotionate number of minority students being tracked to trade schools. Then people like you would pipe up and blame the conservative white southern political system for derailing minority kids and not giving them a shot at college.

So they equalized everything. Now everybody is prepped for college.

And the punchline to this whole scenario is the kids who went off and learned how to weld pipe or build a retaining wall would probably be a lot more successful than many of their peers who went to college.
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:40 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
This makes total sense. But the reason why it doesn't happen is probably because of people like you.

Imgine the reality of this happening. What you would see is a disproprotionate number of minority students being tracked to trade schools. Then people like you would pipe up and blame the conservative white southern political system for derailing minority kids and not giving them a shot at college.
Whether you realize it or not I thought of that scenario. I have thought about it over and over again for years on end.

My solution...and I know, it may as well be cognitive dissonance to conservative-leaning mindsets like yourselves...is to: INVITE EVERYONE TO THE TABLE OF DECISION MAKING. And? ALLOW THEM THE POWER TO MAKE THE DECISIONS.

Yeah, I know, a mindblowing concept, right?

To actually allow a coalition of DIVERSE decision makers to help mold a system that helps everyone...goes totally against the typical southern plantation owner way of only letting old fat white wealthy men run things.

And yet...if there is to be reform, then ALL the leadership from the communities affected should be involved.

No token leadership, no half-hearted measures such as what been done with MARTA/MARTOC, Grady, and all that other nonsense. None of that hillbilly good ol' boy cronyism that's rampant with GDOT, the Georgia Board Of Regents, the Pardon and Paroles Board, and any other board or committee that governs things in Georgia.

Cut that stupid ignorant crap out when it comes to education.

It's time to let a true multiracial multicultural coalition of the willing and able to come in to do great things with our public schools. And it's time to also fully accept the notion of public education to go along with the reform. Let this board be held accountable to the communities affected as well.

Now are you willing to accept what I say? Or are my suggestions too much like rubbing glass in an open wound?

Last edited by AcidSnake; 02-10-2013 at 09:48 AM..
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Old 02-10-2013, 09:51 AM
 
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I don't think it would work.

Because you would have too many involved parents who would never allow their children to be sent on a trade school path even if they weren't able to cut a college curriculum. I know that even if I was making Cs and Ds in school (thankfully, I wasn't) and the school tried to put me in a trade school path, my mother have been down at the school raising holy hell. There was no way that I wasn't going to college, like it or not.

And you have to let that happen. Because if the parents are involved enough to do that, then probably the kid is going to end up doing okay in college. So you can't have some bureaucratic board deciding what track to put students on.

I suspect most of the active parents who went down to make sure their kids stayed on a college track would be the whites and Asians. So again, we'd have to worry about people saying the white kids are getting special treatment because they are the ones more likely to have active parents.

No matter how you do it, someone is going to cry foul.

Also, do you really think the schools are capable of forming a board to make this decision? Who's going to do it? The cheaters at APS? The buffoons in Dekalb county? Are these the people who are going to make decisions for the future of our kids? Let's hope not. And for the record, I wouldn't trust the old white hillbillies to do it either.

Basically, nobody involved in public education should be enabled to make that decision. Because if they were achievers themselves, they wouldn't be in public education. Yeah, I said it!
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:17 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I don't think it would work.

Because you would have too many involved parents who would never allow their children to be sent on a trade school path even if they weren't able to cut a college curriculum. I know that even if I was making Cs and Ds in school (thankfully, I wasn't) and the school tried to put me in a trade school path, my mother have been down at the school raising holy hell. There was no way that I wasn't going to college, like it or not.
Great point.

But I would counter by designing the system so as not to rigidly push the kids into another school system with a bureaucratic decision. I would simply have it so that it would be by advisement. Eventually if the child reaches the point where they may dropout(a "trigger point" so to speak), at that point give the parent and the child some alternative suggestions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
And you have to let that happen. Because if the parents are involved enough to do that, then probably the kid is going to end up doing okay in college. So you can't have some bureaucratic board deciding what track to put students on.
I think you misunderstood where I was coming from with the board. I only want the board to be able to decide how the tracking system should operate. I don't want the board to literally and forcefully decide where each child should go. I'm not a Communist for Christ's sake!

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I suspect most of the active parents who went down to make sure their kids stayed on a college track would be the whites and Asians. So again, we'd have to worry about people saying the white kids are getting special treatment because they are the ones more likely to have active parents.

No matter how you do it, someone is going to cry foul.
But that goes by the premise that you thought I was saying that the board would rigidly decide by fiat where each kid should go. And again I would simply answer that the alternate school system would only be a suggestion, and a safety net to catch the child should they arrive at the point where they will drop out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Also, do you really think the schools are capable of forming a board to make this decision? Who's going to do it? The cheaters at APS? The buffoons in Dekalb county? Are these the people who are going to make decisions for the future of our kids? Let's hope not. And for the record, I wouldn't trust the old white hillbillies to do it either.
I will restate this again, I am only looking at the board from an overall management standpoint like the Charter Commission or the State Board of Education. I am looking at the tracking system management from the standpoint of arbitrarily deciding where child should fit.

I would never allow someone that sort of power. Definitely not in this hillbilly dump of a state.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
Basically, nobody involved in public education should be enabled to make that decision. Because if they were achievers themselves, they wouldn't be in public education. Yeah, I said it!
In Finland, being an educator is a high honor, and worthy of high and very lucrative pay.

Here in America, being educator is more like being a low-paid factory worker...and the product is churning out docile unimaginative unthinking compliant worker bees.

Our country has it all twisted up. Getting it untwisted? It's gonna take a lot of work and a lot of open-discussion.

I pray for the day that people on opposite sides of the aisle can actually discuss this issue without trying to invoke politics, money, and power into the equation.
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Old 02-10-2013, 10:44 AM
 
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I totally agree that trade school paths should be available. As long as the board only advises and doesn't force decisions, that's fine. In fact, you really wouldn't even necessarily need a board, just set up the paths and the students and their teachers and guidance counselors can probably figure it out.

I don't know what it was like in your high school, but mine didn't even have a tech track. I'm not even sure if they had wood shop.
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Old 02-10-2013, 11:36 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,114,785 times
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My alma mater McNair High in South Dekalb didn't have a vocational program per se, as far as I know. But Dekalb County School System(DCSS) does have a Technical High School.

DeKalb High School of Technology South

The problem is, for whatever reason this High School isn't marketed openly as a alternative choice; as I knew many people who would've went there had the choice been presented to them. Instead so many people just drop out of school completely.

Some went to Open Campus to get the GED if they were lucky. But the rest?

*sigh*

....Dekalb County Jail and Metro State Prison, among many other choices in State Prisons throughout Georgia.

I don't know if anyone is really looking out for the kids in DCSS anymore, if they ever did to begin with.


Quote:
Originally Posted by ATLTJL View Post
I totally agree that trade school paths should be available. As long as the board only advises and doesn't force decisions, that's fine. In fact, you really wouldn't even necessarily need a board, just set up the paths and the students and their teachers and guidance counselors can probably figure it out.

I don't know what it was like in your high school, but mine didn't even have a tech track. I'm not even sure if they had wood shop.
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