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Old 02-11-2013, 02:21 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,616,624 times
Reputation: 903

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsvh View Post
GT, you have been through this before. You are biased against rail and in favor of cars. Any of your arguments could be used can be made both for and against the interstate and high-speed rail. The interstate is a massive public works project subsidized by tax dollars which has had massive economic benefits. High-speed rail is the same. I say turn all the roads into toll roads and let the market decide. Then transit and high-speed rail become a very sustainable private enterprise. Why should we subsidize one but not the other? How long would you resist transit if you had to pay $15 in tolls everyday to get to / from work? Or pay $50+ tolls to drive across the state?
If you could come up with a way to ensure that the subsidies and capital expenditures for HSR were equal and not massively greater than other forms of transportation on a per passenger mile basis, then have at it. The reality is that HSR requires much larger subsidies and is not a good fit for the spread out geography of the US, especially in the South.
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Old 02-11-2013, 02:54 PM
 
Location: OCNJ and or lower Florida keys
770 posts, read 1,495,886 times
Reputation: 766
there is a good reason Florida Governor Rick Scott turned down 1.25 billion dollars in free federal money to help cover costs to build a high speed rail system in Florida between Tampa, Orlando and Miami. That reason being that it would never turn a profit and would be a annual financial burden to the Florida taxpayers that would be required to subsidize its operations.



passenger rail systems just like highways are federally funded too somewhat through the "gasoline tax" aka the us highway trust fund. they credit a portion of the mass transit account to support local and regional rail service all over this country.

here is what the taxpayer spent to help keep Amtrak passenger train service in operation in America just in the last 5 years it was suppose/mandated by law to become profitable and pay its own way years ago. It never was able to turn a profit so the taxpayer has been dumping money into this black hole since 1971. What is it going to cost taxpayers yearly to subsidize a country wide high speed rail service? Its over 2 billion for 2013 to keep Amtrak afloat.

Amtrak receives annual appropriations from federal and state governments to supplement operating and capital programs.
Total Federal Support for Amtrak in Dollars Per Year: FY 2009 $1,488,000,000 FY 2010 $1,545,000,000 FY 2011 1,474,000,000 FY 2012$1,409,000,000 FY 2013 (est.) $2,157,000,000
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:15 PM
 
9,933 posts, read 6,939,290 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
If you could come up with a way to ensure that the subsidies and capital expenditures for HSR were equal and not massively greater than other forms of transportation on a per passenger mile basis, then have at it. The reality is that HSR requires much larger subsidies and is not a good fit for the spread out geography of the US, especially in the South.
I can support that. As long as the rule was held equally to both and you capture external costs as well.
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Old 02-11-2013, 03:17 PM
 
9,933 posts, read 6,939,290 times
Reputation: 3026
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigh110 View Post
there is a good reason Florida Governor Rick Scott turned down 1.25 billion dollars in free federal money to help cover costs to build a high speed rail system in Florida between Tampa, Orlando and Miami. That reason being that it would never turn a profit and would be a annual financial burden to the Florida taxpayers that would be required to subsidize its operations.



passenger rail systems just like highways are federally funded too somewhat through the "gasoline tax" aka the us highway trust fund. they credit a portion of the mass transit account to support local and regional rail service all over this country.

here is what the taxpayer spent to help keep Amtrak passenger train service in operation in America just in the last 5 years it was suppose/mandated by law to become profitable and pay its own way years ago. It never was able to turn a profit so the taxpayer has been dumping money into this black hole since 1971. What is it going to cost taxpayers yearly to subsidize a country wide high speed rail service? Its over 2 billion for 2013 to keep Amtrak afloat.

Amtrak receives annual appropriations from federal and state governments to supplement operating and capital programs.
Total Federal Support for Amtrak in Dollars Per Year: FY 2009 $1,488,000,000 FY 2010 $1,545,000,000 FY 2011 1,474,000,000 FY 2012$1,409,000,000 FY 2013 (est.) $2,157,000,000
What sort of profit have highways been returning? Oh wait. Double standard.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:02 PM
 
28,188 posts, read 24,757,324 times
Reputation: 9570
If Atlanta we were the center of a massive nation-wide high speed rail network I would definitely use it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 04:15 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,616,624 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
If Atlanta we were the center of a massive nation-wide high speed rail network I would definitely use it.
So I think that brings us up to about 10 total users in this thread. That has got to be close to the breakeven point, right?
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:24 PM
 
28,188 posts, read 24,757,324 times
Reputation: 9570
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
So I think that brings us up to about 10 total users in this thread. That has got to be close to the breakeven point, right?
I haven't heard anybody say they wouldn't use it.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:28 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,616,624 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I haven't heard anybody say they wouldn't use it.
So that obviously means that everyone would use it. The trains would be overflowin'! This is great news! I retract my opposition based on this new, overwhelmingly positive rivership projection.
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Old 02-11-2013, 05:29 PM
 
Location: atlanta
3,975 posts, read 4,577,833 times
Reputation: 3248
gtcorndog, i agree that we don't need to do a "rail spam" across the united states, but rail is most useful within high-density areas, like the 12 predicted 'megaregions' of the US:



so fiscally i think it would be a good investment to run rail potentially from birmingham to boston along the piedmont atlantic and BosWash corridors. but running rail all the way out to denver and whatnot? yeah, it'd be great for me because i don't fly, but most people would just fly at that point. practically if you can just do it between here and charlotte, for example, to start with, would be sufficient for the time being.
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Old 02-11-2013, 08:47 PM
 
650 posts, read 1,271,856 times
Reputation: 339


i want to see more
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