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Old 02-13-2013, 06:12 PM
 
Location: Macon, GA
1,073 posts, read 1,469,463 times
Reputation: 1065

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Wait for the investigation. As a mid 30s male veteran who has taught at inner city middle and high schools, I would not be so quick to say that a cop should be able to restrain a 12 yo girl, etc without a taser. I bet they could but a taser might have been the least intrusive option. There are some young people so full of rage that throwing them to the ground and holding them down while they bite, spit, and grab your genitalia which forces you to restrain with a level of force that leaves bruising or tazing them are your options. Tazing could be the best option believe it or not. In such a case perhaps those abhorred by the actions may want to wonder why the kids act that way and spend a bit more time fixing that problem.

Not saying this is the case, but assuming that restraining all youngsters is a simple choice is rather presumptuous. Give the investigation time to play out...

 
Old 02-13-2013, 06:18 PM
 
28,212 posts, read 24,815,988 times
Reputation: 9576
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgeorgiaman View Post
Wait for the investigation. As a mid 30s male veteran who has taught at inner city middle and high schools, I would not be so quick to say that a cop should be able to restrain a 12 yo girl, etc without a taser. I bet they could but a taser might have been the least intrusive option. There are some young people so full of rage that throwing them to the ground and holding them down while they bite, spit, and grab your genitalia which forces you to restrain with a level of force that leaves bruising or tasing them are your options. Tasing could be the best option believe it or not. In such a case perhaps those abhorred by the actions may want to wonder why the kids act that way and spend a bit more time fixing that problem.
Agreed. The taser might have been the best option, but we can't say until the evidence is on the table. According to the news reports, the tasers are equipped with video and audio capability so it should be possible to make an evaluation. The principal was present as well, and I would give considerable weight to what they say.
 
Old 02-13-2013, 06:20 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,975 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
There's no evidence either way at this point. Why take sides until you know what actually happened?
The lack of anything indicating wrong doing at this point is a pretty good indication that there is no problem. How quickly do you think would they have thrown this guy under the bus if there was a serious violation?

Quote:
As I mentioned, we've had kids at that school and I know several others who've attended there. They are straight up, hardworking and well mannered young men, but they've all been raised to stick up for themselves. If somebody comes after them they are going to fight back. I have taught them that myself and make no apologies for it.
Sure there are limits, but be prepared for your little one to get tazed for failing to act within the bounds of the law.

Quote:

Well, I'm a "law and order" type person so I like to assume that LE officers are acting properly.
Good.

Quote:
However, life experience also tells me that a reasonable level of skepticism is also warranted. Anybody who's been around knows that there are instances where the cops react improperly. We have LE in my family so we are well aware that they have to operate in situations where there is danger and lots of pressure, and you can't second guess every little thing they do.

But when you deploy a serious weapon on kids it's worthy of investigation until the facts are clearly on the table. If the officer acted appropriately then so be it. You don't have to look very far to find numerous incidents of improper use of tasers.
Skepticism is one thing, but this whole story just wreaks of over-involved mom going out of her way to blame others because "her only child" certainly couldn't be at fault. "My baby is a victim!" Perhaps if she were a better parent and instead of whining to news reporters, she took out her frustration on her daughter's behavior, this might've been a good learning experience for the child. Instead, it just reinforces the "victim" mentality among those who operate outside of civilized behavior.

If you throw punches in society, you are gonna get tased and I have no problem with that.
 
Old 02-13-2013, 06:29 PM
 
492 posts, read 602,240 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post

Skepticism is one thing, but this whole story just wreaks of over-involved mom going out of her way to blame others because "her only child" certainly couldn't be at fault. "My baby is a victim!" Perhaps if she were a better parent and instead of whining to news reporters, she took out her frustration on her daughter's behavior, this might've been a good learning experience for the child. Instead, it just reinforces the "victim" mentality among those who operate outside of civilized behavior.

If you throw punches in society, you are gonna get tased and I have no problem with that.
Have you ever been bullied? Do you know someone who has?
 
Old 02-13-2013, 07:15 PM
 
28,212 posts, read 24,815,988 times
Reputation: 9576
gt, let me give you a hypothetical.

You come home from work one day and are told that Corndog, Jr., aged 12, was tasered on the school bus by a school security officer. You ask him what happened and he says, "Dad, this other kid slugged me and I was just fighting back!"

You ask your neighbor what he thinks about it and he says:
"The parents should be tazed too. Get em all! There is no place for this stuff in society. It is better these out of control young men learn now before they start talking smack to a mall security guard 10 years later and get tazed in front of their kids."

Suppose you speak to his the teacher and tell her your kid claims he was fighting off another kid who attacked him and she snorts:
"Of course that is what he said."

What if you ask the principal what happened and he laughs and says:
"You people who immediately want to side with anyone but the authority figure and want to cling to the small percent chance that the officer was in the wrong are sad."
Suppose you call the school board about it and the superintendent replies:
"There's less than a 5% chance that Corndog, Jr. was just doing nothing but minding his business and was assaulted for no reason. What uncivilized planet are you from where it is so common for people to be assaulted for no reason that becomes your default assumption? Tell your kid 'Don't fight, act like a civilized human and you don't get tazed.' Seems pretty darn simple to me."

"Not only that, where is your evidence that the authority figure did anything wrong, Mr. Corndog? Why would it not make sense to assume that those who are assigned to serve and protect, likely are rightfully acting within the bounds of their authority?"
To make sure you understand, the school board lawyer sends you a letter stating,
"Dear Mr. Corndog,

We have heard you claim your son was protecting himself but the lack of anything indicating wrong doing at this point is a pretty good indication that there is no problem. How quickly do you think we would have thrown this officer under the bus if there was a serious violation?

Moreover, be prepared for your little one to get tazed for failing to act within the bounds of the law. And tell Mrs. Corndog that this whole story just reeks of an over-involved parent going out of her way to blame others because "her only child" certainly couldn't be at fault. "My baby is a victim!" Perhaps if she were a better parent and instead of whining to news reporters, she took out her frustration on her son's behavior, this might've been a good learning experience for the child. Instead, it just reinforces the 'victim' mentality among those who operate outside of civilized behavior. If you throw punches in society, mister, you are gonna get tased and I have no problem with that."

Are you good with all that? Does that seem right to you?

Last edited by arjay57; 02-13-2013 at 07:42 PM..
 
Old 02-13-2013, 08:36 PM
 
492 posts, read 602,240 times
Reputation: 248
Inner city school kids or "urban" kids can't possibly be fighting due to self defense or threats. It's always because they shook hands and agreed to fight and want to be hoodlums.

If it happened at Milton or Alpharetta high school it would be a different story. The only way "those" kids would fight is due to provocations and self defense and never any other reason, like shaking hands and agreeing to fight.
 
Old 02-13-2013, 11:47 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,985 posts, read 4,026,995 times
Reputation: 2800
Quote:
Originally Posted by midgeorgiaman View Post
Wait for the investigation. As a mid 30s male veteran who has taught at inner city middle and high schools, I would not be so quick to say that a cop should be able to restrain a 12 yo girl, etc without a taser. I bet they could but a taser might have been the least intrusive option. There are some young people so full of rage that throwing them to the ground and holding them down while they bite, spit, and grab your genitalia which forces you to restrain with a level of force that leaves bruising or tazing them are your options. Tazing could be the best option believe it or not. In such a case perhaps those abhorred by the actions may want to wonder why the kids act that way and spend a bit more time fixing that problem.

Not saying this is the case, but assuming that restraining all youngsters is a simple choice is rather presumptuous. Give the investigation time to play out...
This. May justice prevail, and only justice.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 08:25 AM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,975 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiatoChina View Post
Inner city school kids or "urban" kids can't possibly be fighting due to self defense or threats. It's always because they shook hands and agreed to fight and want to be hoodlums.

If it happened at Milton or Alpharetta high school it would be a different story. The only way "those" kids would fight is due to provocations and self defense and never any other reason, like shaking hands and agreeing to fight.
It isn't a black or white thing. It isn't a urban-suburban thing. At no point did I mention race, yet some people want to inject race into the discussion like that is what is driving perceptions on this event. That is not the case.

It doesn't matter where this happened. Sometimes you can be right and still be wrong. Swinging and brawling in self defense can still put you in jail or in this case getting tased. It is what it is. What was the officer supposed to do to stop the fight? Should he have taken witness statements and performed an investigation before deciding which person he should tase to break up the fight? No. Tase the both and end the fight. Then you can sort if out from there. Race and location doesn't change right and wrong no matter how much you want it to.
 
Old 02-14-2013, 10:14 AM
 
492 posts, read 602,240 times
Reputation: 248
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
It isn't a black or white thing. It isn't a urban-suburban thing. At no point did I mention race, yet some people want to inject race into the discussion like that is what is driving perceptions on this event. That is not the case.

It doesn't matter where this happened. Sometimes you can be right and still be wrong. Swinging and brawling in self defense can still put you in jail or in this case getting tased. It is what it is. What was the officer supposed to do to stop the fight? Should he have taken witness statements and performed an investigation before deciding which person he should tase to break up the fight? No. Tase the both and end the fight. Then you can sort if out from there. Race and location doesn't change right and wrong no matter how much you want it to.
So what is the right way to defend or stick up for yourself? Since fighting back is the wrong way?
 
Old 02-14-2013, 11:00 AM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,975 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiatoChina View Post
So what is the right way to defend or stick up for yourself? Since fighting back is the wrong way?


Re-read my previous posts.

Doing the right thing can still be wrong and if you start throwing punches, don't be surprised when a police officer arrests you or tases you to break up the fight. It really is that simple.

"But but but my baby did nothing wrong and she is my only child and she told me she didn't do anything wrong. WAaaaaaAAaah." <--- Not buying it.

If she was the victim, the police officer still did the right thing by breaking up the fight. If the evidence supports some bullying and that the poor innocent "victim" was actually a victim (healthy skepticism), then the aggressor should get more significant punishment. However, that can't be determined while the two girls are brawling like wild animals.

Step 1: Stop fight. Step 2: Sort out the details

is far superior than

Step 1: Stop fight. Step 2: Blame security officer for stopping the fight as he saw fit.
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