Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Even if it is surrounded by bad areas, Cascade Heights is still an example of a neighborhood that is predominantly Black and isn't a warzone or having major issues. The neighborhoods surrounding Cascade might be bad, but Cascade itself is a nice area. There is also another wealthy, predominantly Black area next to Cascade, and that is Collier Heights.
I completely agree with Cascade being nice but you just cant compare it to Alpharetta because of the surrounding areas and how shady they are.
[quote=stvincent;16347456]All American cities are highly segregated. The fact that we have integrated communities based on similar economic demographics (meaning not counting whites moving into minority neighborhoods to gentrify) is a sign that Atlanta is integrating at a faster rate than other major cities in the country.
To add to your list of diverse areas: Central Cobb, Southwest Cobb, South Gwinnett, Central Dekalb, North Fayette County, and Douglas County. You can find a good mixture in all these areas.
Even though North Fulton is majority white, minorities are a good chunk of the population in the city of Johns Creek. Most have a SE Asian or Indian background but diversity is not just white and black. Even though North Fulton is traditionally white, its not like Black families are afraid to move there and the apartment complexes have already gone to minorities (Roswell-Hispanics, Alpharetta and Milton-Indians). Similar trends are happening all over the metro. The change will be more noticable once the housing market recovers and people are more easily able to get loans to buy homes again.
Home prices in Alpharetta as a whole are not that high either. Even before the recession one cound find a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house in a nice subdivision and good schools for under $250,000. That's comparable to any other city in the metro(some with way worse schools). It's higher price per sqaure footage that keeps minorites out (i.e. Dunwoody Panhandle). Many minorites who move into historically white communities are newly working class and middle class and tend to want a home or a rental that gives them the most bang for their buck so they can feel their new econmic status. This is why working class and lower income white communities went to the minorites and communities like Buckhead have been able to stay lily white over the last few decades.
Segregation has been an American institution for quite sometime. The laws changed less than 50 years ago. It's going to take a long time to get both Blacks and Whites to have the desire to integrate on a more widespread basis. Whites arent the only ones who are guilty of preferring segregated neighborhoods. Otherwise the Blacks who live in their affluent communities in South Dekalb, North Fayette and Southwest Fulton would have automatically moved to Buckhead or North Fulton instead of creating their own communities from scratch (and still building them up to be as good as their white counterparts).
Overall I think Atlanta is much more willing to integrate than most major American cities. As everyone who has lived here for a while knows, nowadays its class not race that you should be concerned about on the integration matter. Class, among Blacks and whites, is a major determining factor for the demograpic shifts we will see occur over the course of this present decade.[/quote]
Very good post but I do take issue with the highlighted part above. Atlanta is NOT willing to integrate at all. Maybe ITP but not in the outer suburbs. The numerous amount of white flight that has and continues to occur in places like Rockdale, Henry & Fayette counties are evidence of this.
Compare the Atlanta metro to the Twin Cities. You will see a difference, no doubt in part because the Atlanta metro has far more black residents, but also in part because the Atlanta metro is more diverse economically on both the high and low end than the Twin Cities is. There are segregated communities in the Twin Cities, but I think most of those are new immigrants (Hmong, Somali, etc.) and not folks born in the US.
You also don't see the concept of "subdivision" much in the Twin Cities .. that seems limited to some of the newer 3rd and 4th-ring suburbs.
It's dangerous to generalize ... there are almost always exceptions.
Compare the Atlanta metro to the Twin Cities. You will see a difference, no doubt in part because the Atlanta metro has far more black residents, but also in part because the Atlanta metro is more diverse economically on both the high and low end than the Twin Cities is. There are segregated communities in the Twin Cities, but I think most of those are new immigrants (Hmong, Somali, etc.) and not folks born in the US.
You also don't see the concept of "subdivision" much in the Twin Cities .. that seems limited to some of the newer 3rd and 4th-ring suburbs.
It's dangerous to generalize ... there are almost always exceptions.
it's dangerous to generalize,indeed. Sad thing is, generalization is too easy. One thing I am learning about "white flight" is that it is complicated. There is more than one cause/result to this phenomenon. It isn't as simple as saying "blacks move in, whites move out" or "Blacks move in, area declines". There are so many factors, cultural, socioeconomic, and there are individual cases. More often than not, there are times I do feel like I would be judged for someone else's crap. It isn't nice, it isn't fair, but it happens to many people.
All American cities are highly segregated. The fact that we have integrated communities based on similar economic demographics (meaning not counting whites moving into minority neighborhoods to gentrify) is a sign that Atlanta is integrating at a faster rate than other major cities in the country.
To add to your list of diverse areas: Central Cobb, Southwest Cobb, South Gwinnett, Central Dekalb, North Fayette County, and Douglas County. You can find a good mixture in all these areas.
Even though North Fulton is majority white, minorities are a good chunk of the population in the city of Johns Creek. Most have a SE Asian or Indian background but diversity is not just white and black. Even though North Fulton is traditionally white, its not like Black families are afraid to move there and the apartment complexes have already gone to minorities (Roswell-Hispanics, Alpharetta and Milton-Indians). Similar trends are happening all over the metro. The change will be more noticable once the housing market recovers and people are more easily able to get loans to buy homes again.
Home prices in Alpharetta as a whole are not that high either. Even before the recession one cound find a 4 bedroom, 3 bath house in a nice subdivision and good schools for under $250,000. That's comparable to any other city in the metro(some with way worse schools). It's higher price per sqaure footage that keeps minorites out (i.e. Dunwoody Panhandle). Many minorites who move into historically white communities are newly working class and middle class and tend to want a home or a rental that gives them the most bang for their buck so they can feel their new econmic status. This is why working class and lower income white communities went to the minorites and communities like Buckhead have been able to stay lily white over the last few decades.
Segregation has been an American institution for quite sometime. The laws changed less than 50 years ago. It's going to take a long time to get both Blacks and Whites to have the desire to integrate on a more widespread basis. Whites arent the only ones who are guilty of preferring segregated neighborhoods. Otherwise the Blacks who live in their affluent communities in South Dekalb, North Fayette and Southwest Fulton would have automatically moved to Buckhead or North Fulton instead of creating their own communities from scratch (and still building them up to be as good as their white counterparts).
Overall I think Atlanta is much more willing to integrate than most major American cities. As everyone who has lived here for a while knows, nowadays its class not race that you should be concerned about on the integration matter. Class, among Blacks and whites, is a major determining factor for the demograpic shifts we will see occur over the course of this present decade.[/quote]
Very good post but I do take issue with the highlighted part above. Atlanta is NOT willing to integrate at all. Maybe ITP but not in the outer suburbs. The numerous amount of white flight that has and continues to occur in places like Rockdale, Henry & Fayette counties are evidence of this.
In me are feelings of cynicism and yet, I go out there and do research on things like this. What I see is that there isn't any one thing to point at. It isn't that simple. Individual cases are out there. Cases ranging from Cascade Heights to parts of Henry County. This whole subject of "white flight", you have to look at alot of these communities individually. Why did Cascade Heights turn out so nice? Why did parts Henry County turn out bad? Why did Clayton County get bad?
In me are feelings of cynicism and yet, I go out there and do research on things like this. What I see is that there isn't any one thing to point at. It isn't that simple. Individual cases are out there. Cases ranging from Cascade Heights to parts of Henry County. This whole subject of "white flight", you have to look at alot of these communities individually. Whydid Cascade Heights turn out so nice? Why did parts Henry County turn out bad? Why did Clayton County get bad?[/quote]
Very simple answer, because of the types of minorities that moved in. In Cascade you have middle to upper middle class blacks and that area reflects the class of said people. The sames goes for Henry and Clayton, you have poor to lower middle class people moving in and all the problems that they bring. That is why one area is desirable and the others are not.
In me are feelings of cynicism and yet, I go out there and do research on things like this. What I see is that there isn't any one thing to point at. It isn't that simple. Individual cases are out there. Cases ranging from Cascade Heights to parts of Henry County. This whole subject of "white flight", you have to look at alot of these communities individually. Whydid Cascade Heights turn out so nice? Why did parts Henry County turn out bad? Why did Clayton County get bad?[/quote]
Very simple answer, because of the types of minorities that moved in. In Cascade you have middle to upper middle class blacks and that area reflects the class of said people. The sames goes for Henry and Clayton, you have poor to lower middle class people moving in and all the problems that they bring. That is why one area is desirable and the others are not.
That is part of what I have been trying to say. It isn't minorities as a whole. The number of middle-class African-Americans likely outnumbers the amount of poorer African-Americans, and not all poor African-Americans are causing trouble. In fact, it is a matter of the 95/5 rule. 95 percent of the crime is committed by 5 percent of the persons.
Other questions to be asked are: Why do the majority of African-Americans who commit vicious crimes turn up more in predominantly African-Americans neighborhoods? Why aren't those very criminals turning up in predominantly White areas as much, if at all?
That is part of what I have been trying to say. It isn't minorities as a whole. The number of middle-class African-Americans likely outnumbers the amount of poorer African-Americans, and not all poor African-Americans are causing trouble. In fact, it is a matter of the 95/5 rule. 95 percent of the crime is committed by 5 percent of the persons.
Other questions to be asked are: Why do the majority of African-Americans who commit vicious crimes turn up more in predominantly African-Americans neighborhoods? Why aren't those very criminals turning up in predominantly White areas as much, if at all?[/quote]
Simple ,because rich, middle class and even poor whites wouldnt stand for it. In the rich and middle class white areas the police presence is very significant and react to crime in those areas. Even in poor white areas the police are typically pretty responsive. When you add in the fact that many whites are armed it doesnt make for a very pleasant place for a criminal regardless of race. Like it or not many whites are suspect of black males and will keep a close eye on them if they arent part of the same socioeconomic status as the whites in the area. This is why middle and upper middle class black families integrate well into all white areas. The thuggish looking young black guy with pants hanging off his butt, that is the type that will raise eyebrows and will be watched like a hawk in white neighborhoods or areas.
Last edited by suprascooby22; 11-05-2010 at 07:37 AM..
That is part of what I have been trying to say. It isn't minorities as a whole. The number of middle-class African-Americans likely outnumbers the amount of poorer African-Americans, and not all poor African-Americans are causing trouble. In fact, it is a matter of the 95/5 rule. 95 percent of the crime is committed by 5 percent of the persons.
Other questions to be asked are: Why do the majority of African-Americans who commit vicious crimes turn up more in predominantly African-Americans neighborhoods? Why aren't those very criminals turning up in predominantly White areas as much, if at all?[/quote]
Simple ,because rich, middle class and even poor whites wouldnt stand for it. In the rich and middle class white areas the police presence is very significant and react to crime in those areas. Even in poor white areas the police are typically pretty responsive. When you add in the fact that many whites are armed it doesnt make for a very pleasant place for a criminal regardless of race. Like it or not many whites are suspect of black males and will keep a close eye on them if they arent part of the same socioeconomic status as the whites in the area. This is why middle and upper middle class black families integrate well into all white areas. The thuggish looking young black guy with pants hanging off his butt, that is the type that will raise eyebrows and will be watched like a hawk in white neighborhoods or areas.
I am sadly aware of this and I don't like it. From my own personal experience, I don't see a big difference between the Black guy who wears his in a sagging manner and a White kid doing the same thing. In fact, I lived around White kids who behaved in that manner. I got shot with a paintball gun by one of them, in broad daylight. He wasn't a poor kid. He came from a middle class family. No one was watching this kid, least of all his own parents. One of his friends collaborated with another kid and burglarized a house. A Black kid and a White kid both stole from someone's house. The Black kid was the one who got arrested when he did it a second time. A surveillance camera was part of the reason. A Black kid is going to be suspected more than a White kid, even if there are White kids out there doing stupid things. When my family moved into the subdivision they moved to(in Paulding County),it was mainly White people living there. Sagging the pants was what many White kids did. A few of them did some stupid things(including shooting me with a paintball gun, destroying my mailbox, and burglarizing a house). One of my neighbors found golfballs in his mailbox. No one was suspecting them. I few of them played "doorbell ditch". These were middle class kids doing this stuff.
And sometimes you don't have to dress "thuggish" for someone to call the police on you. In my own case, all I had to do look upset. I still remember what happened my first week of college. I was looking for a job on campus. I walked into an office to inquire about it. I was told "no job" and not necessarily in those words. My response: a sigh of frustration and rolling my eyes, then walking away. No threatening words exchanged, no words at all actually. A few minutes later the police were looking for me, saying that there was a call about a "disturbance". I thought "what disturbance? I didn't yell at anyone or anything." I was informed that apparently I scared some women. Thankfully, no charges were filed, no arrest. Just a talk once the police officer found out what really happened. I went home kind of hurt and kind of shocked. I look back and thought, "5'5", 130 pounds, and I am not dressed anything like a 'thug'. How could I be considered scary just by being upset?"
I am aware of this and personally, it upsets me alot. Some say, "life's not fair, get used to it". If only it were that simple. I look at things of "It isn't fair to ME. I am the one being targeted. Why should I suffer because of a small part of the population who actually does commit crimes(and mainly against people who look like them)?" Some people might think of what I have to say as complaining. I look at it as valid concerns.
I am sadly aware of this and I don't like it. From my own personal experience, I don't see a big difference between the Black guy who wears his in a sagging manner and a White kid doing the same thing. In fact, I lived around White kids who behaved in that manner. I got shot with a paintball gun by one of them, in broad daylight. He wasn't a poor kid. He came from a middle class family. No one was watching this kid, least of all his own parents. One of his friends collaborated with another kid and burglarized a house. A Black kid and a White kid both stole from someone's house. The Black kid was the one who got arrested when he did it a second time. A surveillance camera was part of the reason. A Black kid is going to be suspected more than a White kid, even if there are White kids out there doing stupid things. When my family moved into the subdivision they moved to(in Paulding County),it was mainly White people living there. Sagging the pants was what many White kids did. A few of them did some stupid things(including shooting me with a paintball gun, destroying my mailbox, and burglarizing a house). One of my neighbors found golfballs in his mailbox. No one was suspecting them. I few of them played "doorbell ditch". These were middle class kids doing this stuff.
And sometimes you don't have to dress "thuggish" for someone to call the police on you. In my own case, all I had to do look upset. I still remember what happened my first week of college. I was looking for a job on campus. I walked into an office to inquire about it. I was told "no job" and not necessarily in those words. My response: a sigh of frustration and rolling my eyes, then walking away. No threatening words exchanged, no words at all actually. A few minutes later the police were looking for me, saying that there was a call about a "disturbance". I thought "what disturbance? I didn't yell at anyone or anything." I was informed that apparently I scared some women. Thankfully, no charges were filed, no arrest. Just a talk once the police officer found out what really happened. I went home kind of hurt and kind of shocked. I look back and thought, "5'5", 130 pounds, and I am not dressed anything like a 'thug'. How could I be considered scary just by being upset?"
I am aware of this and personally, it upsets me alot. Some say, "life's not fair, get used to it". If only it were that simple. I look at things of "It isn't fair to ME. I am the one being targeted. Why should I suffer because of a small part of the population who actually does commit crimes(and mainly against people who look like them)?" Some people might think of what I have to say as complaining. I look at it as valid concerns.
Your concerns are valid and I agree that the way you were treated isnt right but in an mostly white area unfortuneatley things like that happen to black kids and other minorities. I understand you dont like the perception and if I was black I would'nt either. However you cant change what alot of whites see on the news every night and hear coming out of most rap songs. It doesnt paint a pretty picture for young black youth. Sorry but that is just reality. Does that mean all blacks kids are that way, no but the bad kids end up getting the rest of you painted with a pretty broad brush.
I also know there are plenty of rotten white kids from middle class homes. My middle child goes to Lost Mountain Middle in Kennesaw and two white kids just burned down a school trailer and knocked out 16 windows. Now they will be spending the rest of their teenage years behind bars and rightfully so. You would be shocked to see the neighborhoods these kids came from. Think $300K-$400K cause in the Harrison district you dont find too may homes under that price range. Point is their are bad kids of all races and back grounds but as a 35 year old white guy I can admit that a white kid will get a pass over a black kid in alot potentially bad situations. As I stated before it is what it is.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
