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Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,994,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
a 5 minute walk or drive?
Either or. Despite the stigma that the parking lots many MARTA stations have, most people who live ITP are only a short drive or walk away from one or at least a bus stop (which also counts). There is no disputing the fact that if one l lives ITP, they have the ability to carfree or car light if they so decide.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
I think 1 million is a bit generous.
I was going under. There are 1.6 million people living in the MARTA service areas (Fulton and Dekalb county). There is a good bet that at least half a million people in that area don't live close enough for the criteria I set (less than 5 minutes away from a MARTA stop).
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
Now add bus stops to the mix, then it might not be generous enough.
I took that out of the equation for the "fringe" areas of the MARTA service area like North Fulton, extreme west and south Dekalb, and South Fulton OTP.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
Even then, our Urban Area population is well over 4 million now. I think that is what he is referring to as limited.
The other 2.3 million people who live in Cobb, Gwinnett, Clayton, Douglas and other areas apart of the Urban Area can start paying for MARTA and then complain. Until then, as a life long ITP resident and MARTA tax payer since I spent my first dollar:
Quote:
Originally Posted by cwkimbro
As far as Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton. Collectively those 3 counties represent over 1/3 of the Atlanta urban area's population and jobs. Thats kind of a big deal... And if I can include the Milton area of N. Fulton, which isn't really served well or any better than Gwinnett's and Cobb's transit is... that number will go up. Nothing to ignore.
Again, if they want a voice and not be ignored, they should start with paying for MARTA. Until then, I don't care what their gripes are in relation to MARTA and where it doesn't go.
Overall, my original statement stands: If you want to use transit, live and work near transit. If you don't, don't complain.
The other 3.3 million people who live in Cobb, Gwinnett, Clayton, Douglas and other areas apart of the Urban Area can start paying for MARTA and then complain. Until then, as a life long ITP resident and MARTA tax payer since I spent my first dollar:
Again, if they want a voice and not be ignored, they should start with paying for MARTA. Until then, I don't care what their gripes are in relation to MARTA and where it doesn't go.
Overall, my original statement stands: If you want to use transit, live and work near transit. If you don't, don't complain.
(<-- yea I dont like these, but as long as we are throwing them around)
You're missing the point with some of the arguments.... in this discussion. You're evolving it into new ground and only discussing the tax and political border situation; not a description of the region as a whole. I don't think anyone is arguing Dekalb and Fulton and need to pay for Gwinnett, Clayton and Cobb to get newly added service. However, if we are discussing our region, the populace, and how it functions... then it is very short-sighted to say the least to limit the discussion of our region to only parts of Dekalb and Fulton.
However, reality is Westau and Ant are right. When discussing the way our region functions... most people and most jobs are not near transit. That is where we often get hammered by transit-loving outsiders.
A good description of Atlanta's system is... its great where it exists, but it isn't moving our whole region. That is sort of what they are saying.
DC's system is more expansive in a regional context, in contrast.
I checked up on the UA. It is 4.9m, so when we discuss our region as a whole... you can't just ignore it and say it doesn't matter. It is a -large- part of who we are.
As for the 1 million figure. I still want to see more evidence. I've done a great deal of studying the geographical demographics of the region. A large portion of Fulton's and Dekalb's population are still OTP away from transit stations. (bus does help offset the balance, but the only buses people really drive to are commuter-type)
There are also portions of ITP that are more than a 5 minute drive to a MARTA station with adequate parking, especially in traffic. I'm not even sure the entire ITP population has quite hit 1 million yet. I've always guessed it to be around 1m, but it won't be much over if so.
Great thanks for the feedback. I wondered since I have thought about working in Atlanta and was concerned about the traffice wondered about MARTA. Looks fine to me.
"Unlike most public transit systems in the United States, last year, MARTA continued a downward spiral in declining ridership at a time when that trend should be turning around: the economy is improving; the younger Millennials favor transit more than older Baby Boomers or Gen Xers; gas prices remain high."
"Unlike most public transit systems in the United States, last year, MARTA continued a downward spiral in declining ridership at a time when that trend should be turning around: the economy is improving; the younger Millennials favor transit more than older Baby Boomers or Gen Xers; gas prices remain high."
The main culprit is a $.50 fare hike that kicked in October 2011 (thus impacting 2012 YOY changes), and even bigger proportional hikes in monthly passes and buying tickets in bulk.
Here are the relevant fares for frequent riders:
Q1-Q3 2011
One-way fare: $2.00
20-trips: $34.00 (equivalent to 17 one-way trips)
30-day pass: $68.00 (equivalent to 40 one-way trips if bought in bulk)
NOW
One way fare: $2.50
20-trips: $42.50 (equivalent to 17 one-way trips)
30-day pass: $95 (equivalent to ~44.7 one-way trips if bought in bulk)
Notice the extra 4.7 trips you need to take now on a monthly pass to make it break even. For tons of people, this is the tipping point. To make a monthly pass make sense, you've got to use it more for daily commuting to work. If you're working 5 days a week and using MARTA only for commuting, then the maximum number of times you'll ever use a pass is 44 times in 30 days. And I travel for work--a week-long trip a month kills the economics of the new monthly passes.
Now, instead of buying monthly, I buy 20 trips at a time. This causes me to ride MARTA less often. I used to take it home from the grocery store sometimes as a marginal convenience instead of walking the ~0.5 miles home. Now I never do, since it will cost a little over $2. If my GF and I are headed to a random neighborhood to hang out we are more likely to drive, since I don't have unlimited MARTA anymore (thus effectively doubling the cost for both of us to ride MARTA).
I'm sure plenty of other people have made this decision: ditching the monthly passes and just buying fares in bulk.
I'm forced to take MARTA to work since I don't have a car and my office is way too far to walk, but many people have cars and choose to take MARTA on a day to day basis. If those people switched from monthly passes to buying fares in bulk, they suddenly lose the incentive to ride MARTA each and every day. Raining? Running late? Just drive the rest of the way to the office and forget riding MARTA. Maybe tomorrow.
The annoying this is that all of these fare increases are pretty paltry in the grand scheme of MARTA funding. I remember seeing the amount of money they added, and it was shockingly low...like $20 million if I recall, or ~5% of MARTA's budget. But they hit riders really hard, especially as service has been cut to the bone.
Another big issue is that, according to census data, many of the core MARTA service areas in west and south Atlanta are declining in population. I'm talking roughly 1-2% declines per year, which is dramatic. These are areas close to stations, well-served by bus routes, and with transit-dependent populations. This has got to be eating into MARTA pretty badly: much of the transit-dependent population is shifting to areas with little or no MARTA service.
"Unlike most public transit systems in the United States, last year, MARTA continued a downward spiral in declining ridership at a time when that trend should be turning around: the economy is improving; the younger Millennials favor transit more than older Baby Boomers or Gen Xers; gas prices remain high."
The pricing is the problem. A friend of mine lives within walking distance of Lindbergh and works close to one of the downtown stations but stopped riding Marta to work after the monthly pass prices went up because he could drive quicker to work and pay less to park than to take Marta.
It sounds like the problem is more than just fares.
I'm surprised that ridership is down to 123,400 people a day. Didn't it used to be a lot more than that?
I'd also like to know where all those transit riding millennials are. If we're dumping all these millions into transit for them they sure better be riding it!
Here's the full article Ansley cited. Complaints about delays, schedules becoming less reliable, long wait times, safety concerns and rude patrons or staff:
Quote:
MARTA calculates its buses and trains carry 123,400 people daily to jobs, school and shopping, but since 2001 that ridership has fallen by about 15 percent on trains and 31 percent on buses, according to reports from the American Public Transit Association.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,994,819 times
Reputation: 7333
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
It sounds like the problem is more than just fares.
I'm surprised that ridership is down to 123,400 people a day. Didn't it used to be a lot more than that?
I'd also like to know where all those transit riding millennials are. If we're dumping all these millions into transit for them they sure better be riding it!
Here's the full article Ansley cited. Complaints about delays, schedules becoming less reliable, long wait times, safety concerns and rude patrons or staff:
Someone at the AJC doesn't know how to write, and an editor missed a very big error. From APTA (which they cite ), here are the stats from fourth quarter of 2012:
Someone at the AJC doesn't know how to write, and an editor missed a very big error. From APTA (which they cite ), here are the stats from fourth quarter of 2012:
MARTA Bus - 187,500 trips a day
MARTA Rail -217,600 trips a day
MARTA Paratransit - 1900 trips a day
Total - 407,000 trips per day.
Since most people take at least two trips per day, simple division already gets you to almost twice the number the AJC cited.
Hard to say for sure. If the average total number of trips per day is 407,000 and the AJC claims that is from 123,400 passengers, that means that each passenger averages 3.3 rides a day. With a MARTA card, I'd think nothing of making making more than 2 trips in a day even if it is a short hop.
I wouldn't say MARTA is bad nor is it the best. It's good in the areas it serves. Only the people of two counties(Dekalb, Fulton) have access to it and in those areas it is decent. To be fair to MARTA and give it some credit, less than 2 million people have access to it, yet it has something like 400,000 riders. That's a decent number and I know the number would be much higher if some of the other counties were served as well. The numbers may have gone down some when the fares went up so it would likely have more users. So is MARTA good? That all depends who you ask. If you're asking someone who lives way out there and never uses it, you'll likely get a negative response. If you're asking someone who lives in the COA, Decatur, etc, you will likely get a more positive reaction. For me(when I lived in Decatur) it was decent, convenient and I was able to rely on it for almost a year and I used it at all business hours. The wait time in some areas(mostly later in the evening and night) was sometimes too long but other than that it was decent.
Does it need improvement? No doubt but it's still decent with what it has and some other towns and cities I have been to have far worse service than MARTA. I would like to see it improved and wish it was better managed/funded but I am not gonna say it's horrible or bad. It's okay and in some areas it's even great. In the near future, folks who despise public transportation, will have no choice but wake up and realize that not everyone will be able to just rely on driving. Traffic is a major problem and you have millions of people who drive and that's not good for the region. Maybe the politicians didn't see this coming but Atlant grew pretty fast and is growing even more. A great and efficient transportation system is definitely needed, along with bike paths, sidewalks, etc. The beltline is a great step forward and so is the street car system. This will help some more but more will be required.
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), here are the stats from fourth quarter of 2012:
