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True but I am not sure this is different than neighborhoods in the majority of cities. Sure, there are exceptions like NYC or Chicago but many cities have lots of neighborhoods just like Atlanta that are residential first. Is it so different then Seattle, Tampa, Pittsburgh, Cleveland, Dallas, St Paul etc in this regard.
I would argue that Decatur doesn't feel at all like a suburb (certainly not like an Atlanta suburb) but maybe we need to define that term first.
Cleveland I'm really not so sure these days. They have a strong downtown area, but that areas is not affordable for most working class people. They also have suburbs like Lakewood that are even more urban than the working class neighborhoods in the city, and comparable to Decatur, so it is a mixed bag.
As someone who grew up in a large European capital, I have a visceral dislike of suburban life in general; even more so American suburban life, because people in this country simply tend to be more "private/individualistic/guarded" than anywhere in the world - so suburbs usually end up feeling like well-manicured cemeteries to me (those that ARE manicured; many suburbs we have seen are quite weedy, rural and pretty desolate in feel).
That being said, we ended up living exactly in a suburb: the Universe's punishment of choosing to have kids while not rich.
It is indeed frustrating to live in the suburbs - a way of life I am not cut out to live.
HOWEVER: what I found to be even more frustrating is to pay a tremendous amount of money to live in a "safe" area of metro Atlanta (private schools for kids and all), only to STILL FAIL to get the sense of urbanity I grew up with.
Atlanta itself is much closer to a suburb and much further away from that European capital feel I knew - to be worth so much money to us. Hence we decided for a suburb close to Atlanta where schools are as good as public schools in the US will get, and we are virtually walking distance from tons of amenities.
Yes - they are largely in strip malls (nice and manicured, with a touch of "fancy", for whatever that's worth ) but in the end, they are just practical.
Granted, like other people here noted, we still don't walk there for bread or what have you, because it is just not practical with today's pace of life; but you can get out and solve your problems in a matter of under 2 minutes drive, so we don't spend lots of time driving. It is also close to work.
We kept the house very affordable - and we decided that the extra money are best busted in Europe over the summer where we can often go for two months at a time to visit family.
Sometimes, something's gotta give.
This is an interesting post. We are someways in a similar situation. What I have found in Atlanta is that to live in a nice close in area and pay private schools things are not really any cheaper that living back in Europe or a NE US city with more culture. In our case we wouldn't consider the cheaper suburbs so have ended up spending the extra to live close in. We are also coming to the conclusion its not worth it and if my salary increases a little bit more we will move back to Europe or maybe the NE. I think if someone makes over about 300k a year Atlanta doesn't make much sense as you can then afford a nicer area to live with more culture and less insular thinking. Overall I think Atlanta is a city with International companies but in no way an International city in the outlook of the majority of people.
This is an interesting post. We are someways in a similar situation. What I have found in Atlanta is that to live in a nice close in area and pay private schools things are not really any cheaper that living back in Europe or a NE US city with more culture. In our case we wouldn't consider the cheaper suburbs so have ended up spending the extra to live close in. We are also coming to the conclusion its not worth it and if my salary increases a little bit more we will move back to Europe or maybe the NE. I think if someone makes over about 300k a year Atlanta doesn't make much sense as you can then afford a nicer area to live with more culture and less insular thinking. Overall I think Atlanta is a city with International companies but in no way an International city in the outlook of the majority of people.
What is really terrible to me about Atlanta is the complete lack of lively, open public spaces where people can congregate. A real city has large boulevards for people to stroll up and down, beautiful window shopping, plazzas, art galleries, lots of street cafes where people just hang out, enjoy conversation and simply slow down by setting away that "to do" list for just a few hours.
Atlanta and its areas may have little isolated pockets like this, here and there - but nothing big, central or representative of a true urban area; and if you WILL see such little pockets, it is usually drinking places for young singles with no obligations. Once these singles get married and have children, the assumption is that they will give up on any sort of desire to have an adult life outside of children-related activities - so off to the burbs with them.
European settlements allow for adults to continue to have "a life" throughout their life - whether they chose to have children or not.
To be fair though, I don't think think that this culture of never being able to relax and enjoy the company of your adult fellow humans is limited to Atlanta. We have lived in the Boston area, and while the city does have more culture and more public spaces than Atlanta, I was still not able to find the relaxed, street cafes, conversation-dominated atmosphere of Europe - ITP or OTP. I still continued to see that most people who went out to some kind of venue, just gulped the food without any conversation going on, got up and left. This was especially the case of families with children - which I found very depressing. Marriages run like businesses. In fact we found most of the OTP areas of Boston much more desolate, gray and isolated than the OTP-s of Atlanta; and in the city - just lots of pubs/drinking places.
At least, some of the nice suburbs of Atlanta in the spring have a certain cheerfulness about them, especially close to commercial areas - and sweet sunshine.
In the end I was told that I need to accept that the atmosphere I have in mind is not something that I am going to find in the US period...and if I don't like it here I should just...you know the rest of the poem.
So for now, premiere suburb of Atlanta is as good as it's going to get because this is where the jobs are and this is where it is affordable for us to live.
As someone who grew up in a large European capital, I have a visceral dislike of suburban life in general; even more so American suburban life, because people in this country simply tend to be more "private/individualistic/guarded" than anywhere in the world - so suburbs usually end up feeling like well-manicured cemeteries to me (those that ARE manicured; many suburbs we have seen are quite weedy, rural and pretty desolate in feel).
That being said, we ended up living exactly in a suburb: the Universe's punishment of choosing to have kids while not rich.
It is indeed frustrating to live in the suburbs - a way of life I am not cut out to live.
HOWEVER: what I found to be even more frustrating is to pay a tremendous amount of money to live in a "safe" area of metro Atlanta (private schools for kids and all), only to STILL FAIL to get the sense of urbanity I grew up with.
Atlanta itself is much closer to a suburb and much further away from that European capital feel I knew - to be worth so much money to us. Hence we decided for a suburb close to Atlanta where schools are as good as public schools in the US will get, and we are virtually walking distance from tons of amenities.
Yes - they are largely in strip malls (nice and manicured, with a touch of "fancy", for whatever that's worth ) but in the end, they are just practical.
Granted, like other people here noted, we still don't walk there for bread or what have you, because it is just not practical with today's pace of life; but you can get out and solve your problems in a matter of under 2 minutes drive, so we don't spend lots of time driving. It is also close to work.
We kept the house very affordable - and we decided that the extra money are best busted in Europe over the summer where we can often go for two months at a time to visit family.
Sometimes, something's gotta give.
Don't take this the wrong way, but do you have any friends or a social life at all? Geez, man you sound depressed. Maybe you should talk to a professional. Atlanta is not that bad, even in the suburbs. Maybe you just don't "get" the culture. There are thousands of worse places to live, both in the USA and Europe. Get a grip.
I live in the suburbs of Atlanta and wouldn't want to live in the city. Personally, I think the dislike of the suburbs by many city dwellers is actually "disdain." They look down on suburbanites and think they are better. Why, I wonder? Is it some jealousy of those who of us who have a bigger house or more lawn or a quiet neighborhood? Or is it what they feel is a repudiation of their choice? I've seen their negative sentiments over and over toward the 'burbs on this site. Time to get over that people!
I just explained that in my post before yours. The urban boosters just want more people in the city so they can see & do more.
What is really terrible to me about Atlanta is the complete lack of lively, open public spaces where people can congregate. A real city has large boulevards for people to stroll up and down, beautiful window shopping, plazzas, art galleries, lots of street cafes where people just hang out, enjoy conversation and simply slow down by setting away that "to do" list for just a few hours.
Atlanta and its areas may have little isolated pockets like this, here and there - but nothing big, central or representative of a true urban area; and if you WILL see such little pockets, it is usually drinking places for young singles with no obligations. Once these singles get married and have children, the assumption is that they will give up on any sort of desire to have an adult life outside of children-related activities - so off to the burbs with them.
European settlements allow for adults to continue to have "a life" throughout their life - whether they chose to have children or not.
To be fair though, I don't think think that this culture of never being able to relax and enjoy the company of your adult fellow humans is limited to Atlanta. We have lived in the Boston area, and while the city does have more culture and more public spaces than Atlanta, I was still not able to find the relaxed, street cafes, conversation-dominated atmosphere of Europe - ITP or OTP. I still continued to see that most people who went out to some kind of venue, just gulped the food without any conversation going on, got up and left. This was especially the case of families with children - which I found very depressing. Marriages run like businesses. In fact we found most of the OTP areas of Boston much more desolate, gray and isolated than the OTP-s of Atlanta; and in the city - just lots of pubs/drinking places.
At least, some of the nice suburbs of Atlanta in the spring have a certain cheerfulness about them, especially close to commercial areas - and sweet sunshine.
In the end I was told that I need to accept that the atmosphere I have in mind is not something that I am going to find in the US period...and if I don't like it here I should just...you know the rest of the poem.
So for now, premiere suburb of Atlanta is as good as it's going to get because this is where the jobs are and this is where it is affordable for us to live.
Parts of Midtown, VH and clusters on the Beltline are getting very nice these days. I think in years to come they will get closer to what you are describing. Once these areas reach critical mass everyone will want to be there. If you look at the demographics moving into a lot of ITP areas there are way more high income couples with kids each year.
You can't find any friendly or relaxed people in the South? I think you're doing it wrong (or maybe people just don't like you because more of your pompous attitude is showing through than you realize).
You can't find any friendly or relaxed people in the South? I think you're doing it wrong (or maybe people just don't like you because more of your pompous attitude is showing through than you realize).
Yes: that's why pretty much all "nice" suburbs of Atlanta (and elsewhere) look like very well-taken care of cemeteries and the "not-so-nice" ones, like not-well taken care of cemeteries: because I have a pompous attitude.
I am glad we were able to figure out the ITP-OTP battle.
In fact, the only reason why we are able to survive in such a dry land is exactly because we have a very small circle of very close and trustworthy family and friends. This, however, has nothing to do with the extent to which suburban life in general sucks. If it wasn't, you would only have me write about it - and not scores of other people. Hence the debate on this thread. Have you heard of smoke without fire?
PS: Who said you cannot find friendly people in the South?
Your extrapolation attempts are laudable but terribly amateurish.
... the extent to which suburban life in general sucks. If it wasn't, you would only have me write about it - and not scores of other people. Hence the debate on this thread. Have you heard of smoke without fire?
The same logic applies the other way too in the ITP vs OTP drama.
But look man. This board has nothing if not whiny, hand wringing posts about Atlanta's supposed lack of urbanity (that is apparently why the board exists after all). But yours took it to another level, and that is saying something. I'm surprised no one called 911 to have someone come check on you after reading that. I really feel bad for you that you have to live here. In the future I hope that your dreams come true and you can move somewhere good. In the meantime, I'll keep enjoying living in this "well kept graveyard" that is the ATL.
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) but in the end, they are just practical. 
