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Old 06-01-2013, 08:45 AM
 
14,202 posts, read 8,706,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Saying the people are NEVER or ALWAYS about anything is silly. You cherry pick the threads that discuss government spending and taxes, where taxpayer money is being proposed for what are in my opinion poorly conceived plans like TSPLOST or for private businesses like the Falcons.

I love football and I want my transportation problems worked on, but in neither case is the proposed use of taxpayer funds wise, in my opinion. If supporting government spending is the criterion you use to determine whether or not someone is "happy" then I suggest there are other cities and other states where you may be "happier" living.
Exactly. The justification for spending taxpayer money depends on the project. If it's a wise use of our public funds I am happy. If it's a dumb use of money, or if the circumstances are less than transparent and subject to debate, I am not happy.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:00 PM
 
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Raising taxes is not going to solve the traffic problems in Atlanta. Malcontents complain about the new stadium because they're dumb.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:20 PM
 
93 posts, read 39,763 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interwebs View Post
Raising taxes is not going to solve the traffic problems in Atlanta.
Doing nothing is not going to solve traffic problems in Atlanta.

Raising taxes and spending the money foolishly isn't going solve the traffic problems in Atlanta.

Raising taxes and spending the money wisely won't solve ALL the traffic problems in Atlanta, but it will help to ease some congestion.

I do think something needs to be done, but the money MUST be spent wisely.

Quote:
Malcontents complain about the new stadium because they're dumb.
I don't have a problem with the hotel tax being extended to fund the stadium. I think having a top notch facility will continue to attract big-time events to the city that otherwise will start to migrate elsewhere. While stadium projects typically don't often offer a return on all of the promises made to build them, but the positive exposure for the city gains from hosting Final Fours, Super Bowls, BCS bowl games, etc is priceless.


I wouldn't get all bent out of shape over people voicing differing opinions on these projects. That is democracy and these minority groups act as a counter balance to majority thinking. Even if it slows progress, it certainly has a place in our society. Ultimately, if the people want these projects, they can/will make it happen. If the pendulum swings the other way against these projects due to the opposition gaining momentum, the politicians will backtrack and the projects won't happen

Also, the idea that Atlanta is any more disgruntled than other cities is comical. This is especially true of the city's sports fans. Atlanta has one of the most apathetic fanbases in the country. BJ Upton is now just really starting to get scrutinized for his awful performance. In most cities, the guy would have been crushed in April. Think Philly, NY, Boston would've accepted 50+ games of a .150 batting average? Hellllllllll nah.
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Old 06-01-2013, 06:44 PM
 
14,202 posts, read 8,706,956 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Interwebs View Post
Malcontents complain about the new stadium because they're dumb.
Great way to start a dialogue.

Why is it dumb to ask for greater transparency and more detailed information about the expenditure of several hundred million dollars in public funds?

There have been lots of knowledgeable people who've questioned the validity of pubic funding of pro sports owners.

Subsidizing Billionaires: How Your Money is Being Used to Construct Professional Sports Stadiums

Public Financing of Private Sports Stadiums

Public funding for stadiums no easy sell nationwide | www.myajc.com

http://www.c-spanvideo.org/program/181678-1#
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Old 06-01-2013, 07:05 PM
 
Location: The big blue yonder...
1,782 posts, read 1,446,036 times
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I think some people miss the point.

The point is not of "happiness." The point is that more things don't get done than get done in Atlanta because the people are not happy with it...

Read deeper please.
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Old 06-01-2013, 11:12 PM
 
3,290 posts, read 1,667,767 times
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Because Atlanta thinks it's a city that is 'too busy to hate', yet no one is hating on Atlanta....Why would you hate on Atlanta? It doesn't specialize in anything, but a busy airport which doesn't affect many people in their everyday lives. It doesn't have a good transit system, it's highway system isn't that great, it's urban living isn't that great, and the city is consistently considered one of the most dangerous, crime ridden cities in the country. Midtown Atlanta is in this wave of high crime with the further density that is gets. It does not have much historical prevalence in the history of this country...at least not compared to the cities of Boston, NYC, and Philly. It no longer has a can-do attitude. As someone mentioned, it takes decades to get things done now. DC, NYC and other cities have begun taking initiatives to further improve their infrastructure, specially their subway systems. Here, any mention of taxes will almost instantly give you a NO answer.

Atlantans, especially the suburbanites don't care about the central city. It doesn't directly affect the so why should they care? They think it's a haven of crime and minorities, specifically blacks. A portion of them simply go for a Braves games or work and simply go home. On a Saturday, 4/5 people walking the streets of Downtown are tourists. I bet you in NYC, half or more of those walking the streets of Midtown are residents of the city. They take pride in Manhattan. The suburbanites almost want to separate themselves from the city. Embarrassing.

Insane because I see all these great cities around the world and then you look at Atlanta and then you truly see the potential that will never be met. You realize Atlanta as far as culture relevance and how the city is built doesn't even break top 100 in the world. Metros of 2 million in Europe destroy Atlanta. It's sad. Just sad.

The city made poor choices early in it's life and now it's suffering. It's trying to play catch up, but it's hard in this day and age when money is tight and developers have to make cut choices. This means development of the city is slow.
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:08 AM
 
Location: The big blue yonder...
1,782 posts, read 1,446,036 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ant131531 View Post
Because Atlanta thinks it's a city that is 'too busy to hate', yet no one is hating on Atlanta....Why would you hate on Atlanta? It doesn't specialize in anything, but a busy airport which doesn't affect many people in their everyday lives. It doesn't have a good transit system, it's highway system isn't that great, it's urban living isn't that great, and the city is consistently considered one of the most dangerous, crime ridden cities in the country. Midtown Atlanta is in this wave of high crime with the further density that is gets. It does not have much historical prevalence in the history of this country...at least not compared to the cities of Boston, NYC, and Philly. It no longer has a can-do attitude. As someone mentioned, it takes decades to get things done now. DC, NYC and other cities have begun taking initiatives to further improve their infrastructure, specially their subway systems. Here, any mention of taxes will almost instantly give you a NO answer.

Atlantans, especially the suburbanites don't care about the central city. It doesn't directly affect the so why should they care? They think it's a haven of crime and minorities, specifically blacks. A portion of them simply go for a Braves games or work and simply go home. On a Saturday, 4/5 people walking the streets of Downtown are tourists. I bet you in NYC, half or more of those walking the streets of Midtown are residents of the city. They take pride in Manhattan. The suburbanites almost want to separate themselves from the city. Embarrassing.

Insane because I see all these great cities around the world and then you look at Atlanta and then you truly see the potential that will never be met. You realize Atlanta as far as culture relevance and how the city is built doesn't even break top 100 in the world. Metros of 2 million in Europe destroy Atlanta. It's sad. Just sad.

The city made poor choices early in it's life and now it's suffering. It's trying to play catch up, but it's hard in this day and age when money is tight and developers have to make cut choices. This means development of the city is slow.
You feel exactly as I do...
And to see all the "I'm happy so I don't know what you're talking about" comments that keep coming through, but we both know how Atlantans get in their own way of progress and improvement, it just goes to show how delusional our city is about it's own relevance in this world.

We love stupid open parking lots and believe in the need for them (as if underground parking and parking decks aren't options)
We destroy development just to build over it, causing us to never fill in the city and make it less spread out and walkable, but to forever feel suburban nearly to the core. As if repurposing of buildings and developments aren't options that will help maintain the urbanity of the core
We act as though Georgia can make it on it's own without a successful Atlanta, so we turn our backs on it (but that's so far from true. If Atlanta fails, North Georgia fails)
We don't perpetuate a sense of pride in our hometown, but instead cling to the places that our parents, our families or often, even ourselves are originally from (as if that helps better your NOW home at all)
We nay say to every idea that arises as if everything is just already perfect.
We act like any tax is the devil, even if it's not going to be us paying the tax (hence hotel-motel tax for the new stadium)
We pretend that mass transit brings crime out to our little safe haven suburbs (as if people steal a TV, then hop on the train with it. Criminals use cars, and FYI, but the suburbs are full of hoods and low income housing)
We are lagging so far behind other comparable US and International cities, but we feed ourselves the delusion that we belong in the International level conversation
We complain about traffic, then turn around and fight commuter expanding MARTA, fight commuter rail, and won't spend a dime to help improve MARTA, then wonder why nothing changes and traffic is so bad and getting worse (and to think we get excited about building the MMPT... Without the commuter rails, what will be it's purpose? Just a huge bus station?)

I love Atlanta, but it's this mentality of what is seeming like most of the people that embarrasses me about my city.

Last edited by Psykomonkee; 06-02-2013 at 01:05 AM..
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Old 06-02-2013, 12:43 AM
 
Location: That star on your map in the middle of the East Coast, DMV
829 posts, read 690,675 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Psykomonkee View Post
Ok, OBVIOUSLY the post isn't talking about you specifically then... It's a broad generalization (hence the "generally")
But others that feel like I do know what I'm talking about. You've made no point.



I agree. Thanks



That's exactly what I'm talking about. No matter what happens, or what good news comes Atlanta's way, I hear an overwhelming sentiment of anti-trust, anti-support, skepticism, pecimism, etc...



Good point made... Tax IS involved in a lot, however the sentiment that I hear often doesn't concern tax. I've heard many trying to convince me that the TSPLOST was bad for black people. I've heard people tell me, "Well, MARTA "ain't" putting money in MY pocket, so why should I pay anything for them?" I keep hearing all kinds of negativity all across the board. It drives me nuts. But the most annoying part is when people JUMP to a negative conclusion without having done one ounce, one second of research before standing on their negative opinion. I STILL continue hearing idiots telling me "It's not fair for them to raise MY taxes so Arthur Blank can build himself a stadium..." Uhhh... Dumd@... The Atlanta Stadium project is THE ONLY ONLY ONLY New Stadium project that the citizens are paying 0%, aka $0.00 towards the funding of the stadium (unless you spend money in the areas that ARE going to be taxed to support it such as hotel & other hospitality taxes).



Right!!!
I hear your points, and I am not implying in any way that people only complain in Atlanta. However, 1st off, I could care less about how much people complain in Denver. It doesn't make the Atlanta complaining any more acceptable or any less annoying. And 2, my point is that nobody even knows what kind of coach, Coach Mike Bud will end up being yet. This is going to be his first Head Coach job. AND he's coming from over 15 years in a top of the line winning program system. Even Tony Parker praised him saying he's a great coach and that he'll do good things in Atlanta. But oh, noooo... Turn on the radio and listen to some of these callers calling in to voice their opinions of the Hawks' new coach selection and the are saying things like one caller talking about how he's not ever buying Hawks season tickets again because they don't care about winning...

I feel more than any other sentiment, an underlying message of "change nothing and give nothing a try, because nothing will work and things are just supposed to be the way they already are" from the spirit of the city.



Sarcasm noted... And uneccessary.
Again, other's complaining doesn't make it any better in Atlanta. 1. And 2, a lot of those places you've listed, though people complain about some things, they have a level of civic/hometown pride. They WANT their city to succeed, and the pride will sometimes translate into a "yes" vote on things that will mean they may have to pay something more to see an improvment. Check out the public funding for the Dallas Stadium. And the Houston stadium. And the Miami Stadium. And the Giants stadium. New Yorkers complain, but also believe NYC is the greatest place on Earth, and they get things done! DC gets things done! They don't just talk it in DC. Many things get rumored, then next thing you know, there are dump trucks and cranes going up as they get to work... In Atlanta, it takes 10 years to do a feasibility study, then another 10 to convince the neighborhoods to vote yes. Then 20 years later, construction MIGHT start if there's any money left over, but wait... It's only 15 years into the idea, and we still haven't gotten that "yes" vote yet so we are still spending money on just trying to get people to buy into the idea of how the progress can help, rather than hurt. If only the community would just step in a LITTLE bit... Getting anything done in Atlanta is like trying to find support for an adult circumcision fair. There's a "can't do/won't work for me" atitude about the city towards almost everything, and it's no fun for anybody involved.



NYC
Chicago
DC
Philly
Phoenix
Denver
San Diego
etc... List can go on...

I've lived in ATL, PHX, DC, LA, San Diego, Palo Alto (San Fran area), Pensacola, FL and Brooklyn...
I've noticed that:::

When living in Phoenix, there's not often news of something NEW(besides more homes) as often as in Atlanta, but when there IS a development or anything that hits the news and people start talking, I have yet to hear people jump out saying "well, let them pay for it. I shouldn't have to pay for anything." It's more of a general support for...

In DC, it appears to me (and I know it's only appearance) that most things that get talked about, get pushed through and done. That city/area doesn't much like to take "no" for an answer... Maryland: Gambling, let's get it done! New developments? get em done! Street cars? Get em done!

In Brooklyn... Not even going there... You can't tell a Brooklynite that something new in Brooklyn isn't a good idea. EVERYTHING that happens in Brooklyn is a good idea... Even if it IS a bad idea

San Diego. Never really noticed much interest in "how to" get anything done like in Atlanta. Seems like most have the mafia wife attitude... "Do whatever, take whatever, I love San Diego anyway..."

LA is a lot like Atlanta though. All across the board. However, there is a better since of LA pride than in ATL.

Ok, I'm tired of writing
We do get things done in DC i would say it is a noticeable difference than Atlanta, BUT one project I would like to see done NOW in the DMV is the Purple line in the MD suburbs. I mean they have been in the planning phase for that for almost 10 years now and still the EARLIEST completion date in the foreseeable future is 2020 smh.

Oh yea better to get it right than to start a $120 million project complete over 50% of it and then have to tear it down and build it over from scratch. Learn from one of our mistakes made here in Montgomery County, MD...

Silver Spring Transit Center cracks fracture a profitable political and corporate marriage - Washington Post


Overall I see where your coming from but hey stop complaining ATL is still thriving it ain't Detroit.
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Old 06-02-2013, 01:12 AM
 
Location: The big blue yonder...
1,782 posts, read 1,446,036 times
Reputation: 774
Quote:
Originally Posted by the resident09 View Post
We do get things done in DC i would say it is a noticeable difference than Atlanta, BUT one project I would like to see done NOW in the DMV is the Purple line in the MD suburbs. I mean they have been in the planning phase for that for almost 10 years now and still the EARLIEST completion date in the foreseeable future is 2020 smh.

Oh yea better to get it right than to start a $120 million project complete over 50% of it and then have to tear it down and build it over from scratch. Learn from one of our mistakes made here in Montgomery County, MD...

Silver Spring Transit Center cracks fracture a profitable political and corporate marriage - Washington Post


Overall I see where your coming from but hey stop complaining ATL is still thriving it ain't Detroit.

I didn't say "Everything" gets done in DC, but seriously a LOT gets done. The purple line isn't built, but the Silver Line is going up as we speak. Gaming passed. Tracks for DC Streetcars are being laid. National Harbor got built before Atlanta's Atlantic Station, however the planning started after Atlantic Station. The list can go on and on...

And Right, it's not Detroit (funny you say that)...
Do Atlanta's Woes Warrant 'Detroit of the South' Description? - Department of Hyperbole - Curbed Atlanta

HOWEVER, that doesn't mean it to just be stagnant and not improve and think things will just be alright.
"If you aren't going up, you're going down..."


There are some REALLY GOOD ideas that get proposed, but get curbed simply because the people are upset about it, not satisfied with it, worried about it, don't trust it, don't like it, not happy with it, or whatever... We Atlantans LOVE to say "no"
We really do
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Old 06-02-2013, 07:19 AM
 
14,202 posts, read 8,706,956 times
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The thing about Atlanta is that people love it. Atlantans may not be meeting the expectations of the naysayers and critics, but they've nonetheless built one of the most popular cities in the Western world. People have been flocking here by the millions for decades, and they keep on coming.

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